Maneuvering flaps on the P38

[Murdr]

as for Murdr's post, Murdr will prob have to reload them. skuzzy had to change out a failing hard drive for the trainers FTP and we probably just missed re-uploading those documents...

I know 51-127-1 link works.  I have it sitting here in a browser.  As I noted though, some of the pdf's are very large, and have not been formatted for streaming, so you have to be patient and let it download 100% before being able to view it.

[TequilaChaser]

heck, I didnt know murdr, just assumed...... someone posted the links were not working......

thanks for the clarification 

[Traveler]

well in that case, you might want to refer to your manual, and get a protractor, then go launch a P-38(whatever version here) and hit F3 view..then hit the Q in 1 notch increments until it gives you the degrees in which you are looking for  which by your opening post is 1/2 flaps

pretty simple  

(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )

Please educate me, how do you set ½ flaps in a P38.   Each time you hit the “Q” Key the flaps deploy 20%.  50% is not an option.  So your suggestion can not be used.
 The flap gauge has 20% 40% 60% 80% 100%  So how do you get it to stop at 50%

[TequilaChaser]

(edit: the in cockpit flaps indicator guage will also tell you when you are around/near 1/2 flaps as well )

I edited it for the exact purpose of it not being specifically 50%........please note the underlined part of my quote

hope that helps....

[2ADoc]

Traveler, I have one question.  

How many WW2 planes have you flown?


I myself have flown all the "L" birds, C-47s, DC-3s,Beech 18s, T-6s, A Yak-3 allison powered, A few P-51s, a Sonya replica"that would be a Jap bird" , along with a Zero and a Kate replica, I have flown a BT-13, 17 and a 19.  I have also flown an SE-5a Replica, along with a Fokker DR.VII.  I have more tailwheel time than I have milkstool time,"Tricyclegear" Means the wheel is in the front.  I have flown everything from pietenpol aircampers to Smith-Swarengensen Aerostars.  I have also flown a Ryan PT-22, the Cadet Killer, and have walked away from it, I have flown more WW2 planes than most have seen.  I realize that you are a CFI, and have some amount of hours teaching, YOU of all people should realize that this is a game.  The guys have done a great job of modeling the planes.  Have you even ever shot an NDB approach, I know it is all GPS now.  Get out of the books, My dad had 6 Piper Tomahawks, and not a one flew the same, we also had a Swift, and a Cessna 195 with a Continental W670, And a few 172'S along with a Superhawk.  I have flown Barons and Cessna 421's to AT-13s.  I have time in a Pv-2 Opps Howard.  I am sorry Skuzzy Rule 14 if you must, I want to know where this guy gets off.  The AH crew has done a great job on the flight Modeling for all the planes.  If you dont like the AH modeling go to IL-2 or go to FSX.  

[Traveler]

Traveler, I have one question.  

How many WW2 planes have you flown?


I myself have flown all the "L" birds, C-47s, DC-3s,Beech 18s, T-6s, A Yak-3 allison powered, A few P-51s, a Sonya replica"that would be a Jap bird" , along with a Zero and a Kate replica, I have flown a BT-13, 17 and a 19.  I have also flown an SE-5a Replica, along with a Fokker DR.VII.  I have more tailwheel time than I have milkstool time,"Tricyclegear" Means the wheel is in the front.  I have flown everything from pietenpol aircampers to Smith-Swarengensen Aerostars.  I have also flown a Ryan PT-22, the Cadet Killer, and have walked away from it, I have flown more WW2 planes than most have seen.  I realize that you are a CFI, and have some amount of hours teaching, YOU of all people should realize that this is a game.  The guys have done a great job of modeling the planes.  Have you even ever shot an NDB approach, I know it is all GPS now.  Get out of the books, My dad had 6 Piper Tomahawks, and not a one flew the same, we also had a Swift, and a Cessna 195 with a Continental W670, And a few 172'S along with a Superhawk.  I have flown Barons and Cessna 421's to AT-13s.  I have time in a Pv-2 Opps Howard.  I am sorry Skuzzy Rule 14 if you must, I want to know where this guy gets off.  The AH crew has done a great job on the flight Modeling for all the planes.  If you dont like the AH modeling go to IL-2 or go to FSX.  

Lets see, I have time in C47 for Monmouth Airlines back in the 70’s Lots of NDB’s ILS, flew for another little airline, Eastern 727-400.  I have B25 , F4U, P40, TBM  flying for a War Bird ferry service.  

I also think that HiTech Creations has produced a great game.  I enjoy it.  I made a wish for a more accurate aircraft model.  Just as HiTech Creations states.  I have not made any detracting statements other then state the truth.  The P38 flap selection is not accurate.
  


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[Murdr]

Reposting this since the same question of the AH equivalent to the "maneuver flap" setting was also raised in this thread.

Either 2 or 3 notches.  How can I say that?  Which one is it?  On an EM diagram above 225 you're better off with 2 notches.  Both settings are hitting the pilot's G limit, hence both give the same peak turn performance.  2 notches (20 degrees) offers less drag for the same performance at that speed range, hence the wise choice.  Below that speed range, 3 notches (30 degrees) offers a slightly more favorable instantanious turn rate and stall parameters.  At sustained rate of turn either notch yields almost the same dps, with 3 notches having a slower sustained speed.  

The 5 degrees either way from 50% deployment is not a huge performance issue.  If you are using them as perscribed "MANEUVERING FLAPS SHOULD BE EXTENDED ONLY LONG ENOUGH TO COMPLE PARTICULAR MANEUVER AND THE BE RETRACED IMMEDIATELY"~Ray Meskimen then you're likely in a speed range where it is a non-factor on turn performance.

[FLS]

Lets see, I have time in C47 for Monmouth Airlines back in the 70’s Lots of NDB’s ILS, flew for another little airline, Eastern 727-400.  I have B25 , F4U, P40, TBM  flying for a War Bird ferry service.  

That's very cool Traveler but it makes it harder to understand why you couldn't get the AH F6F off the ground at 86 MPH. 

[2ADoc]

Hey man I had hard time landing the Hog But I am just a LOW time idijte, HOLD THE TAIL DOWN, As it was once said only a Jack4## dont lock the tailwheel.

[CAP1]

Flaps

Fowler flaps were part of the initial design.

The MANEUVER setting was introduced in mid-production of the F model (F-15).  The MANEUVER setting pitched the flaps down 8 degrees and were often used for take-off and more importantly, combat, to decrease turning radius.  Thus, this setting of the main flap system was sometimes called "COMBAT" flaps. 

When the flaps lever was moved out of the MANEUVER setting, the flaps would roll back on rails while also increasing pitch.  Thus, the flaps were really a two-part, or hybrid design:  1) conventional hinged flap, and 2) Fowler.
Besides the MANEUVER setting, there were to two other automatic settings: "UP" "DOWN."  By manually adjusting the flaps lever, the pilot could also set the flaps anywhere between.



from here.

http://kazoku.org/xp-38n/articles/p38info.htm

[thorsim]

soo ...

the flaps are not modeled strictly to the POH?

[Traveler]

That's very cool Traveler but it makes it harder to understand why you couldn't get the AH F6F off the ground at 86 MPH. 

I could fly it off at 86MPH,  What I was attempting to do was fly it off at 75 MPH,   The film showed the F6F flying off at "Around 60 Knots"  That converted to about 75MPH.   One I was attempting to fly off at 75 MPH with no flaps as in the training film.

 

[Murdr]

IAS equals CAS in AH.  It can be misleading to compare AH to historical data when it doesnt specify if an IAS was calibrated or not.   

[FLS]

I could fly it off at 86MPH,  What I was attempting to do was fly it off at 75 MPH,   The film showed the F6F flying off at "Around 60 Knots"  That converted to about 75MPH.   One I was attempting to fly off at 75 MPH with no flaps as in the training film.

I was referring to your original post stating that all the AH A/C took off at 100 mph.
I don't know that the film shows the F6F-3 taking off at 60 knots, it shows a takeoff and the narrator says it takes off at about 60. I don't believe that's conclusive evidence.

[Traveler]

I was referring to your original post stating that all the AH A/C took off at 100 mph.
I don't know that the film shows the F6F-3 taking off at 60 knots, it shows a takeoff and the narrator says it takes off at about 60. I don't believe that's conclusive evidence.

I think 100MPH can be used through out this game as a ballpark figure  except for the ME 262,  and people can just jump from aircraft to aircraft using 100MPH for takeoff.