Jet Performance Graphs

[Elfie]

Hmmm modern fighter knowledge.

F-15 driver or sea turtle gynecologist. Who do I rely on for more credible info?  decisions....decisions 

[SgtPappy]

In ref to the F15 and the SU27, I gotta say I have probably been closer to these two birds than most here, save eagl, and can unequivocally say that in my opinion the SU27 is superior to the F15 in all areas save cockpit ergonomics and weapons/ avionics. It is out and out a beast of a fighter.

That being said, your F15 drivers are probably better trained as eagl has pointed out and better equipped to deal with any given scenario.

On a pure airframe to airframe match up..Su27 hands down.

Just my humble $.02

RTR

Yes, i do suppose, from what I've read and heard, that the Su-27 has far better maneuverability, climb and acceleration, giving it the total dogfighting edge.

Other than better tech, does the Eagle not have better top speeds at most altitudes?

[Elfie]

Yes, i do suppose, from what I've read and heard, that the Su-27 has far better maneuverability, climb and acceleration, giving it the total dogfighting edge.

Other than better tech, does the Eagle not have better top speeds at most altitudes?

Every aircraft has it's weaknesses that can be exploited and Eagle pilots are likely to be far better trained than Sukhoi pilots.

[Ex-jazz]

Every aircraft has it's weaknesses that can be exploited and Eagle pilots are likely to be far better trained than Sukhoi pilots.

So, if there are two equal skilled pilots for each specific plane, the SU-27 will won the dogfight?

[Elfie]

So, if there are two equal skilled pilots for each specific plane, the SU-27 will won the dogfight?

That isn't likely to happen because very few Air Forces give their pilots the stick time the US Air Force gives theirs.

[Ex-jazz]

That isn't likely to happen because very few Air Forces give their pilots the stick time the US Air Force gives theirs.

You are avoiding the question.

Was that 'yes' in between the lines?

 

[Elfie]

You are avoiding the question.

Was that 'yes' in between the lines?

 

Of course I am. I'm avoiding it because it isn't likely to happen. Sukhoi pilots don't get the same stick time and training that Eagle pilots do.

[Jackal1]

See Rule #4

[Bodhi]

It is nice when an expert on subjects like this (Eagl) shows up and actually puts fact into the discussion.  The actual facts you can learn are so much nicer than the opinions that abound. 

[shreck]

Worked F-15s in Okinawa and never heard of an F-15 jock who disliked it or thought anything in the world could beat it. It is a real MANS plane to work on as I imagine it is to fly!! I believe everyone ever associated with this fine aircraft without a doubt truely loves it, It was my favorite I ever worked on!! Can't say the the same for the F-16 though 

Not trying to hijack, reading this brought back a few fond memories <S>

[eagl]

Unreleated, odd-ball F-15 question.

Does the gun have any upward tilt to it at all, and how scary is it to strafe with? I've read some articles recently that at least one pilot went in on a strafing run, and the pilots aren't happy about how nose low they have to go at low level to make the attacks.

The F-15E has the up-canted gun, yes.  And it is challenging to strafe, yes.  The employment range has to be a bit longer than other ground attack aircraft and the dive angle is typically steeper.  If you know how to do it though, it's just like any other strafe pass, just put the pipper on the target and squeeze, keeping slant range, dive angle, and altimeter in the crosscheck.

[eagl]

We tried to train some F-15C drivers to strafe when some people were wondering how much it would cost to mod some F-15Cs to be able to drop bombs (they'd probably haul around LGBs that F-15Es would lase into the target, or JDAM) and let them strafe, so they'd be useful in the GWOT...  Our weapons officers gave them a few hours of academics, put them in the sim, and then took them to the range to give it a shot.  There wasn't a second sortie...  I didn't get the whole story but apparently the first trip to the range was pretty scary and nobody thought it was worth the risk to continue the program.  Strafing with a fixed mil-depressed gunsight and an up-canted gun is not easy at all.   

I don't think the idea to mod F-15Cs to turn them into bomb mules for the strike eagles ever went very far either.

[eagl]

It is nice when an expert on subjects like this (Eagl) shows up and actually puts fact into the discussion.  The actual facts you can learn are so much nicer than the opinions that abound.  

It took me a while to post after I saw this thread, mostly because I can't share the most relevant or convincing analysis.  Every aircraft has limitations, and the exploitable tactical ramifications of those limitations are not always obvious or trivial.

Armed only with the gun, I would not want to take anything but an F-22 up against a gun-only flanker variant.  With full-up systems, no tactical handcuffs, and reasonably even number of opponents though, I'll take any Eagle variant including a heavy/draggy F-15E.

It should be noted that NASA and Boeing (MacD) experimented with modifying the F-15 with canards and vectored thrust nozzles.  It gave the plane similar extreme maneuvering capabilities as the flanker, but the cost wasn't worth the minor edge it would give us in the limited close-in dogfight scenarios.  Plus the mod would add weight/complexity, increase fuel burn, decrease top speed, etc, basically reduce the overall ability of the F-15 to be the worlds best all-around air dominance fighter.

[rabbidrabbit]

interesting...  I'm assuming the reason wasn't ballistic drop?  Was it more for giving easier lead under g's?  I guess I'm not grasping the reason..  From your description I'm assuming it's more than a couple degrees.

[Bodhi]

It took me a while to post after I saw this thread, mostly because I can't share the most relevant or convincing analysis.  Every aircraft has limitations, and the exploitable tactical ramifications of those limitations are not always obvious or trivial.

Well, I am appreciative of your input.  As I have said before, opinions are like... (well you know the rest)  The sad part about discussions in here are that those with their opinions are not always the ones with facts.  Yet they are more than willing to ruin a good discussion on a topic by remaining fact less and loudly opinionated.  It is why I rarely post in the open forums anymore.  It is just not worth it.  The same goes for the rest of the boards regarding warbirds and aviation.  It seems they are loaded with people who "know-it-all" based off of a book they read or something they heard.  That what they are spouting off on is completely fact less means little to them.  Their ego and personal view of themselves as "in the know" makes them impossible to discuss things with, and thus it is just a waste of time.

Again, I appreciate your input.