WWI aircraft engine management

[Scherf]

Thanks.

I have it in my head somewhere that I saw a TV program where a physics prof demonstrated that to turn to the left, one needed to displace the stick backwards (i.e. not to the left).

[Rino]

     Fear the blip switch!    Leave it on too long and you've got a glider with a couple
hundred pounds of ballast in the nose  

     Of course I do wonder about the in-lineengined birds like the Fokker D-VII or the
Albatross D-V, anyone know what kind of throttle system they used?  The irony is,
I have seen an Albatross fly up at Old Rhinebeck and never thought of this question.

[Charge]

"I have it in my head somewhere that I saw a TV program where a physics prof demonstrated that to turn to the left, one needed to displace the stick backwards (i.e. not to the left)."

I think that is oversimplification. After you initiate the turn the downwards or upwards momentum depends on how tight turn you initiate, but of course the aircraft likes to go faster downwards than upwards. I think it is just that you need to keep in mind when turning to right (depending how hard you turn) that you need to apply also elevator and some opposite rudder to keep the turn level and coordinated. Or if you are in a tight spot you could just yank a right turn and let the engine mass do its trick and also make the tendency more pronounced with elevator and rudder.

AFAIK as with FW190's "flick roll" the Camel could "flick turn" as well so tightly that it was almost impossible to follow. Why this was more pronounced in Camel that in other planes?

-C+

[Wmaker]

    Of course I do wonder about the in-lineengined birds like the Fokker D-VII or the
Albatross D-V, anyone know what kind of throttle system they used?  The irony is,
I have seen an Albatross fly up at Old Rhinebeck and never thought of this question.

Unlike the rotaries, WWI-era inlines used pretty much conventional carburators so they had a normal, linear throttle control. The reason for the spartan throttle control in the rotaries was the lack of conventional carbs, ie. the mixture was fed through the stationary crankshaft into crankcase from where it was fed into the cylinders with a few different methods depending on the particular engine.

[Wmaker]

More nice rotary engine stuff:

http://www.animatedengines.com/gnome.shtml

http://www.enginehistory.org/Gnome%20Monosoupape.pdf

[FLS]

Nice link thanks.

[hitech]

Looking at WWI aircraft pictures I noticed that the engine cylinders did not seem to rotate at all. These airplanes had rotary engines which meant that the whole cylinderblock rotated with the propeller.

There is a rather enlightening article about this type of engines and their engine management in Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine

Imagine the torque and gyroscopic effects of the massive engine rotation force on such light airframes.

-C+

How would you see movement in an ah picture? They are not like real life where a blur occurs when the photo is taken.

[Wmaker]

How would you see movement in an ah picture? They are not like real life where a blur occurs when the photo is taken.

Ahh yeh, missed that bit of Charge's original post.

Charge, yeh, the rotaries are animated. I noticed that from an .ahf taken of the Super Fokkers during the Evil Con Mission.

[Lusche]

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[49Jester]

All this talk is making me more eager than ever to jump in one. Any ideas on a release date?   

[LesterBoffo]

There were also a method cutting the ignition for every other or every third cylinder in a changing firing order which lead into "50%" and "33%" settings between all out and idle. Check the first youtube-link I posted.

 If you kept cutting the ignition of every other or third cylinder you'ld end up with fouled up spark plugs in short order on those cylinders.  The Gnome Monosaupapes actually had an elaborate gear works on the magneto control that rotated the "off" cylinder plugs alternately with the ones that were receiving ignition sparks, so to keep all the plugs relatively clean and hot.  The other thing about the early Gnomes were that the intake valves were in the head of the piston, were complex and needed servicing every 50 hours of operation.   Since they were operated by atmospheric pressure they limited the altitude ceiling and the power output.

  The Clergets, Lehones,and Bentleys had individual air and fuel controls, some were in a semi automatic linking arrangement, but most could be individually adjusted.   You didn't reduce the throttle much below 50% so as to keep the flow of Castor oil well distributed in the engine.  The oil was pumped crudely into the intake runner and since Castor oil doesn't mix well with gasoline, it was drawn along by the fuel-air mixture.

[FLS]

Good info and welcome to Aces High.

[Wmaker]

If you kept cutting the ignition of every other or third cylinder you'ld end up with fouled up spark plugs in short order on those cylinders.

I guess I worded it badly by saying "changing firing order" but...

The Gnome Monosaupapes actually had an elaborate gear works on the magneto control that rotated the "off" cylinder plugs alternately with the ones that were receiving ignition sparks

...this is what I meant.

[Bino]

For wickedly, fiendishly complex, it's hard to beat the Siemens-Halske Sh.III geared rotary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens-Halske_Sh.III

Yeah, that's just what you want in an aircraft engine, complexity.   

[LesterBoffo]

For wickedly, fiendishly complex, it's hard to beat the Siemens-Halske Sh.III geared rotary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens-Halske_Sh.III

Yeah, that's just what you want in an aircraft engine, complexity.   

 The Siemens rotary suffered more from the ersatz Castor oil the Germans were forced to use later in the war.  The engine design was fine but it suffered from heat and wear that would have been lessened if it could have been run on real Castor.  Marvelous idea and it ran relatively fast for a rotary.