HaHa Waystin, ground comes up real fast now dont it, i think alot of the ramming is just from people not expecting such sharp turns and loops from these kites, i was in a great fight yesterday a 4 on 4 ( yes i know a dream come true) just us 8 battled it out forever it seemed, i was on this one guys 6 screaming in on him at ohhhh 85 mph i say and he pulled hard up to loop around on me, as soon as i seen that i to pulled hard for a loop, his loop turned so fast that i cut his wings off with mine,( he was already comming down as i was almost vertical going up) i should of just cut throttle and he would of looped right into my guns, after i landed i PM'd him and apologized for running into him, he just laughed and said " i wasnt expecting to loop infront of you either i was hoping to loop to your 6 " and that its no biggie were all figuring out these planes, but i have already seen the point and shooters.