Where's WWI going from here?

[Wingnutt]

railyards to attack, traines, bridges, factories..

add em, let em be targets..   but make them have NO impact on the airbases, leave the airbases indestructible.

that way people who want to attack/bomb a target, can, and can be engaged while doing so and that whole scenario can be played out.. which is good, adds diversity to the type of fights, face it your not going to get a chance to attack a bomber if there is nothing for them to bomb..

but with airfields unaffected by the strat targets and being unkillable..  the furballers can still furball all day long without worrying about ANYTHING interrupting.


there, nothing either sside can cry about..  you wanna bomb or attack a target, ya can, wanna furball, ya can.. and neither will harm the other's fun.

only argument against this idea would be that it would ALLOW people more choices and not FORCE them to fly your way I.E.  " I dont want any strat, because people will go attack it instead of dieing in my furball"  well if thats how you feel, your a selfish little kid and need to grow up.  nobody should be forced to either play 1 particular way or quit.

[Lusche]

If HTC made the WWI arenas more of the same old same old (ie..WWII MA) I'd likely cancel my account again.

I'm quite optimistic that this won't happen.

But note that almost none of us thinking about ways to add something to wwI gameplay variety is actually asking for WWII gameplay and captures in WWI.

[Toad]

What you all miss is that your suggestions will, without fail, evolve to the present MA.

Some of us have been around since beta. We watched as this little thing or that little thing was begged for and received. Each of these things was never going to impact the other guy's fun, it would just add variety and objectives for people that didn't want to fly fighters or whatever.

Except that's not how it works. The one thing that non-fighter players can't stand is NOT having an effect. Thus, things get added to make problems for other players when a certain segment or activity is ignored.

Laz has probably posted on this hundreds of times here. He's about the most cogent and concise observer of MA behavior and the effects of the changes. Search for his posts on toolshedders. I believe it was he that originated the term.

Take cherry powerups. HT could sprinkle cherry powerups all over the skies. Some people would fly through them and win the war. When those people noticed that nobody really gave a damn about their huge victory over cherry powerups, the clamoring would begin for cherry powerups to have an effect on the arena. It has been this way with every addition to the MA. The result is the shambles you have there now.

I realize that it's likely the majority of the player base needs cherry powerups to hold their interest. I realize that HT may eventually cater to that mentality once again with WW1. It's all good; I don't mind arenas where you guys steamroll the cherry powerups. I just don't go there.

I just hope he will leave at least ONE of the WW1 arenas just the way they are right now. 100 guys that fight make for a whale of a great game, with no need of cherry powerups.

Of course, I'd expect the whining that the guys in that arena are spoiling your fun by not coming to a place where you can affect their fun by flying through cherry powerups.

Some people are just here for the knife fight in the phone booth though.

[Saxman]

Toad's right Sax.....you already have all the objective oriented game play you could ever ask for.....over in the WWII arenas.

Yeah, and before the WWI arenas, furballers had all the furball-oriented game play THEY could ever ask for.......over in the Dueling Arena.

Nice job swinging and missing at the frelling point. Why should furballers be the only ones to get what they want from the WWI arenas? Why is it so unacceptable that guys who love the WWI birds be able to have something more objective-oriented. Just HOW does that interfere with the furballers? Like I said: What does it matter WHY your opponent is there to fight as long as he FIGHTS? What does it take away from you if I dogfight you to keep you from stopping Lusche from popping a balloon you're defending? You don't care about the balloons, you're just there to fight. And in the end you get your furball, I get my objective. Are you REALLY that obsessed over principle that you'd find the fight any less enjoyable?

As Lusche said: VERY few people are even advocating rolling bases in WWI to begin with. That just wasn't the nature of the war on the Western Front. I think the observation balloons over No Man's Land would be the perfect way to handle this as it doesn't keep the furballers from furballing (no hangers to drop, no ords or fuel to pork, no runways to vulch) and gives the rest something to fight for (defend/pop the balloons). But GOD FORBID someone suggest something other than furballing.

Put away your torches and pitchforks and actually LISTEN.

[Elfie]

Put away your torches and pitchforks and actually LISTEN.

First, maybe you should practice what you preach.   

Second, aircraft had very little impact on the outcome of WWI. Bombs were initially dropped over the sides. Fighters were used to down enemy recon planes and artillery spotters and of course other fighters. The use of aircraft in war was in it's infancy and simply didn't have a significant impact on the war.

Yeah, and before the WWI arenas, furballers had all the furball-oriented game play THEY could ever ask for.......over in the Dueling Arena.

How many arenas do the toolshedders have dedicated to them? How many more need to be dedicated to the toolshedders? Furballers need to be relegated to one arena and never get another?

[bj229r]

I'd love to see morning fog come a few hundred feet up from the ground....haze from smoke of the endless artillery fire mixed with it...

[Bronk]

Toolshedders have enough room as it is.

[BaldEagl]

I was thinking about my earlier idea a little and maybe all you need is a small hill in the middle of no mans land with a few tank bunkers built in that would provide a defensed view of the surrounding battlefield.  This would allow for some view even when the spotter ballons were down.  Then there wouldn't be a need to reward anyone with points as it would be an inherently valuable objective for the GVers.  They would still need the bombers help in getting it and, of course, if there were no bombers helping they could still battle around the hill and even fire at enemies on the hill without having to go through the obsticals.

I just don't see any downside to this.  No interference with the furballs, no map resets and more things for even the fighters to do.

Any argument against something like this is just selfishness or snobbishness.  "Mommy, these kids are playing in my sandbox."  Grow up.

[Lusche]

First, maybe you should practice what you preach.  

Second, aircraft had very little impact on the outcome of WWI. Bombs were initially dropped over the sides. Fighters were used to down enemy recon planes and artillery spotters and of course other fighters. The use of aircraft in war was in it's infancy and simply didn't have a significant impact on the war.

And that's why I explicitly not asking for captured bases or the old MA win-the war, reset the map gameplay.  

But when I read comments like

Toolshedders have enough room as it is.

I get the feeling nobody is actually reading.

I proposed:
- fields stay uncapturabe
- fields stay protected by puffy ack so that any potential vulcher or toolshedder will be blown to pieces before even getting close enough
- a few added objectives away from the bases

That would not interfere with the swirling furballs between the bases (hangars can't get shut down, bases won't get captured by sneak NOE raids) at all. You could just choose if you stay there.. or venture out to do something else.

But I think I'm done for now. I made myself as clear as I can, and I will leave this thread for hysterical people of both "sides"

[68ZooM]

A good place for WW1 to go is with 2 arena's that is the only way it will keep everyones interest's, face it were going to need two, Toad has a great point just leave one the way it is and let it run its course.

Now an idea for the other arena i think has been explained by several people all with good ideas ,A simple map or maps with 3 non capable airfields, In the center each map would have a large strat city broken into zones with fuel ammo and vehicle/plane factories scattered thru out the city the object for the bombers or WW1 GV's is to occupy (cap a flag)and destroy buildings within the zones, the more zones you have capped would determine which country occupies the majority of the city theres no winning the war no map change just who occupies the most percentage of the city.

Same plane set as there is now with the addition of a couple of WW1 era bombers, or if not mistaken they just dropped them over the side? and some WW1 era tanks, recon/spottin Zeppelins could be used in the future also, the gameplay would be a variety for everyone, bombers would have a strat targets ,Tanks would have strat and other tanks to kill, fighters can escort bombers to targets and also intercept bombers, fighters can still fight with fighters or bombers or maned zeppelins, theres alot of great possiablities, this is just an idea thrown out there, one of many BUT WW1 has to cater to all so we will need 2 WW1 arena's

[Toad]

No interference with the furballs, no map resets and more things for even the fighters to do.

See my post above. All the changes to the WW2 MA as it evolved from beta started like this and with the exact same reasoning/justification.

However, the people doing these things...in your example, gv'ers and bombers on the hill.... would soon become unhappy that they had no effect on 'the war'.

Bombers in the MA started out just that way. First, they just wanted some targets to drop bombs upon; that would be so cool, they would be SO happy. Then, they needed the targets they hit to have some effect, so their missions had some "purpose"; it they had that, they'd be content. So they were able to deny fuel or drop radar. But that wasn't enough, oh no. Then they wanted destroyable fighter hangers so they could stop the enemy for upping and help 'win the war'.

It works like this EVERY time. The things you propose seem so innocuous at first but they ALWAYS lead to the the current MA. ALWAYS.

It's just a matter of knowing your history.

[Toad]

A good place for WW1 to go is with 2 arena's that is the only way it will keep everyones interest's, face it were going to need two, Toad has a great point just leave one the way it is and let it run its course.

I'm cool with that. I just hope we don't get stuck again with a tiny corner of the Dueling Arena with a tiny little Furball Lake. An arena with the current WW1 map and gameplay would suit me just fine.

...A simple map or maps with 3 non capable airfields, In the center each map would have a large strat city broken into zones with fuel ammo and vehicle/plane factories scattered thru out the city the object for the bombers or WW1 GV's is to occupy (cap a flag)and destroy buildings within the zones, the more zones you have capped would determine which country occupies the majority of the city theres no winning the war no map change just who occupies the most percentage of the city...

Again, not to overemphasize, you need to realize it will NEVER stay like that. It will evolve with a series of seemingly innocuous requests until you have recreated the shambles of the WW2 MA. It's just the nature of that type of player. The history, the truth of this, is right here on this BBS if you do some looking.

But good luck to yas. Just leave some space for people to whom that dross is anathema. Please.

[Elfie]

And that's why I explicitly not asking for captured bases or the old MA win-the war, reset the map gameplay.  Smiley

My post wasn't really directed towards you.   

fields stay protected by puffy ack so that any potential vulcher or toolshedder will be blown to pieces before even getting close enough

I saw some tard in WWI 2nd arena last night trying to deack A6.   

[horble]

Guess I'll chime in here..  First off, I absolutely love the WWI arena we have now, good furballs, and able to get some 1vs1's in the middle.  Great fun.

I like the idea of having a couple arenas, with one of them staying exactly as it is now.  In the other I would love it to be more of a historical arena, with frontlines, the same uncapturable and unvulchable bases.  Observation balloons over the frontline, some rail depots to bomb, that kinda stuff.  It'd be just fine with me if you couldn't win the war there either, airpower never really made a huge impact on the war effort, after all. 

Hell, I'd even like flying over the front in a Be2c or a Rumpler and doing 'photo reconnaisance'.  Flying over the front and intercepting two-seaters in my scout would be a blast as well.  Just being able to really immerse myself would be great, but I'm probably in the minority there.  *sigh*

Not saying I'd never hop into the furball arena either, I absolutely love it in there.


But it would be nice, maybe one day, to have something a little more.

*dons flame retardent suit*

[68ZooM]

No kinda like i said 2 arena's, leave one just as it is now the only changes would be the addition of new fighter planes, the second would be something like i suggested and others have, whatever way they evolve into is going to be up or the fault of the players in those arena's, like i have always said and always will, theres such a cross mixture of playing styles all trying to play there way. everyone have a good day  

edit... this was in responce to toads last post, thought i hit quote