Where's WWI going from here?

[hubsonfire]

The problem is in the MA a lot of people do not want the conflict. They want the Win, in order to win they must capture bases. The best way to capture a base is for that base to have no resistance. The way to minimize resistance is to have NOE raids avoiding said conflict.

That same tendency isn't limited to the MAs- it's also readily apparent in the WW1 arenas. Balloons, strafing ground positions, tanks, infantry, bombing things- anything but actually fighting and defeating the other guy. Somewhat surprising is that people continue to argue that things aside from combat, promote combat, when really all they are looking for are the game mechanics they are familiar with, except disguised as bananas or cherries instead of hangars and ack. The ability to attack an inanimate object, and get a "win", and then start all over again. Mindless repetition, indeed.

[hitech]

I agree completely.  Last night one arena had 100 and the other had 4.  The rest were empty.  I played in the 100 player arena for about 15 minutes and it was simply too crowded for my enjoyment.  I went into the arena with four players and had a great time.  Soon there were about 20 players in there and it was still a ball!  100+ is just too many for this aging kid.

I tend to agree also that 100 is a bit to high. With 100 normal fights would be about  16 v 16

HiTech

[SlapShot]

I went into the WWI arena on the first day with great expectations and was somewhat disappointed.

1) Ganging is still the norm ... if you are into "it" with someone, you will soon find that you are into "it" with many ... same as WWII MA. People just can keep themselves off to the side and let what already started ... finish.

2) HOing is still the first move ... I flew, for what seemed an eternity, to an airfield that wasn't supplying the treadmill hoping to get someone to up. Low and behold, I have a taker. I circle outside the ack zone waiting and giving him some time to get up to speed. I turn into him about 2.5K out setting up for the "fight". At D400 the Hoin' starts and I get a pilot wound ... OH JOY ... I fly all this way to get HOed on the first merge ... I should have known better. In the meantime another person ups and of course has to jump in ... I obviously got killed. Flew a few more sorties back and it was the "same 'ol same 'ol" ... I logged and haven't been back.

It may be a "dogfighting" only arena, but the dogfighter mentality is still WWII MA ...

I love the dogfight, but the mindless furballing does not ring my bell anymore.

=== AN IDEA ===

I hope Toad doesn't think that I have turned to the "dark side" but what if ...

Instead of making "fields' objectives, use blimps instead.

Each team would have blimps on their respective fronts. Your team downs a blimp ... you own it and it represents your ground forces have moved forward ... get the most amount of blimps (you have conquered the most amount of the "front") and you win.

Why blimps and not airfields ?

Blimps are in the air and to down them, you have to be in the air ... so there is no need to add the primitive bombers or ground vehicles to move forward to the objective. All actions to defend or attack is in the air with dogfighters. Your either dogfighting to defend a blimp or your dogfighting your way in to take down the blimp.

Now ... to take down a blimp would not be a simple task.

1) It would be a very "hard" target ... lots of bullets would be needed to down it.

2) Bullet damage would be cumulative, by country, with no repair time. If blimps are attacked they will eventually go down if the effort is put forth.

3) Blimps would have ack, which can be taken out, but they will repair within a specified time frame.

By shifting the objective from the 'ground' (taking a base) to the 'air' (downing a blimp), I can't see why this would not generate some terrific air battles.

Mind you ... this could be just one WWI arena ... there still could be another WWI arena that has no 'objective' but pure furballin'.

==================

I too agree that it would be nice if the WWI arenas offer something more diversified when it comes to the 'map' and I am sure they will. Like Toad pointed out, different types of fighting venues ... canyons ... beaches ... mountains.

I haven't been here since beta, but I have been here since 2002, so I know what Toad is saying and I have to agree with him on one hand ... on the other hand, I like to have something to strive for or defend against ... furballing to just furball just doesn't do it for me. I remember back in the day when I flew with the 13th and we would join up with the BKs to defend against CV attacks ... some of the best fights that I have ever had in the past eight years were a result of those attacks ... had those guys on the CVs not wanted to take a base ... those fights never would have happened.

EDIT:

Another thing I would like to see happen in the WWI arenas ... get rid of the Knight/Bish/Rook notion ... find something else ... something new and refreshing.

[Toad]

Slap, first of all, there is no lack of good fights in WW1 right now.

I've pretty much been following Dicta Skuzzy as posted and have no trouble finding good engagements. Usually, diving down through the edge of the caribou herd will be enough to get one to follow you out to clear air. Plus, there's any number of 2 V 1s that you can join to even things up to 2 v 2.

Secondly, no matter how appealing or how innocuous these ideas appear to be, the real problem is that it never stops there and you know it. HT has explained the instant shift in game philosophy that happens when you put these factors into the mix.

I'm totally with HT as he's put it out in this thread.

You ought to give it another try. As Yeager said, the half (or less) full arenas give you a great opportunity to have fun using Dicta Skuzzy.

[Ghosth]

For those of you feeling "horded" and run through the meat grinder. Might I suggest you try a "Dawn Patrol" some morning.

Normally 7-10 oclock sees anywhere from 14 - 24 people on. Fights are smaller, if you show restraint diving into a 1v1  eventually they may show you some. Do what I do, not what I say always works better than do what I say, not what I do.   


Watch out though as the skill level tends to be quite high.

[SlapShot]

Secondly, no matter how appealing or how innocuous these ideas appear to be, the real problem is that it never stops there and you know it.

I understand all that ... it's just human nature to want to improve upon things ... if it wasn't, we would still be driving Model Ts and flying around in Sopwith Camels ...

I guess I need to give it another chance.

[CptTrips]

I understand all that ... it's just human nature to want to improve upon things ... if it wasn't, we would still be driving Model Ts and flying around in Sopwith Camels ...

I guess I need to give it another chance.

Toad might want to look this over:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Regards,
Wab

[Skuzzy]

Slapshot, just remember this.  If you want it one way, you can safely assume someone else does too.

Yesterday, the arena was in a state where there were two opposing fields with no one flying between them.  I took off from one of the empty fields.  In less than 30 seconds, someone was upping from the other field.

Two like-minded people.  We had a blast.

If flying to the mob is not what you want to do, then do not do it.  I would be willing to bet there is someone else feeling the same way.  You just have to present the opportunity or take the lead and make it happen.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  It will not cost much to try though and the reward is worth the effort.

[Toad]

Thanks, Wab. I was aware of that fallacy.

Problem is we have the hard evidence here on this BBS and in the WW2 MAs. The camel owns the tent now.

[Toad]

Yesterday, the arena was in a state where there were two opposing fields with no one flying between them.  I took off from one of the empty fields.  In less than 30 seconds, someone was upping from the other field.

Same experience here.

[SlapShot]

Slapshot, just remember this.  If you want it one way, you can safely assume someone else does too.

Yesterday, the arena was in a state where there were two opposing fields with no one flying between them.  I took off from one of the empty fields.  In less than 30 seconds, someone was upping from the other field.

Two like-minded people.  We had a blast.

If flying to the mob is not what you want to do, then do not do it.  I would be willing to bet there is someone else feeling the same way.  You just have to present the opportunity or take the lead and make it happen.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  It will not cost much to try though and the reward is worth the effort.

Skuzzy ... been there ... done that.

As I explained in my post above ... I flew to an empty airfield to get away from the treadmill ... 1 guy did up ... was HOed immediately on the first merge ... pilot wounded ... continued to fight and whatdayaknow ... another lifter decides to join the party. Came back to the same airfield ... same 2 guys ... both attack at the same time and both HO on the first merge. Kept them off for awhile best I could but the outcome was inevitable.

Like I said ... I will give it another shot.

[Toad]

Here's the thing Slap; you got a 1 v 1 out of the deal. It just turned out he was a HO shooter. How many trenches, zeppelins, manned ack, burning hangars, destroyed fuel would change that?

It's not the game, the arena or the setup; it's the players.

[SlapShot]

Here's the thing Slap; you got a 1 v 1 out of the deal. It just turned out he was a HO shooter. How many trenches, zeppelins, manned ack, burning hangars, destroyed fuel would change that?

It's not the game, the arena or the setup; it's the players.

I got a 1 v 1 ... but there was no "fight".

Your right ... "It's not the game, the arena or the setup; it's the players" ... but, just because the arena name says WWI on it does not mean that the WWII MA ganging / HOing mentality is "left at the door" ... my experience so far is it's the same ... just different planes.

I guess I was hoping ... I should have know better and not set myself up for disappointment.

[CptTrips]

Toad,

I'm curious.

Do you think allowing the huggers to orbit in an impenatrable force field of ack promote the fight?

Wab

[Toad]

Wab, last time I saw guys near ack, it was killing friendlies and enemies indiscrimnantly.

However, if some doof wants to send HT $15 a month to fly circles above a field in his ack cocoon, who am I to tell him he can't do it? It's his money; I'm not going to tell him to play my way. I am probably the guy that will dive into the ack as close to him as I can get so the ack would kill us both though. 

Now let me ask you a question:

Do you REALLY think that adding a zeppelin/balloon/trench with even more ack is suddenly going to install a spine in people that are afraid to fight?

Again, there's absolutely no shortage of fights in the WW1 arena at present. There's plenty of kills getting recorded.

What some apparently have a problem with is that the fights are not to their liking.

To that, I'll just again say that Dicta Skuzzy will solve most of those problems. You can find whatever fight you're willing to look for any night you choose. Not every single time; that's not true in any arena. More often than not though.

I guess I just can't grasp the premise that making WW1 more like WW2 is somehow going to improve the quality of the fights. All you hear about fights in the MA is hordes, ganging and HO shots. Few like the fights in the MA, yet they want to make WW1 like the MA in order to improve the fights. 

The whole objective thing is a red herring anyway.

It's the players, not the playground.