Where's WWI going from here?

[Krusty]

^^Dose need done.I can see an icon coming at me 3 minuets before i ever engage them.

Nope... going 100mph, which is 1.666... miles per minute, and seeing an icon 3 minutes out puts it at 5 miles, or 8k. Icons only show at 6k, which is 3.6 miles (well within human eyesight's ability to start IDing a plane! VERY short range!).

Instead, you get icons about 2 minutes out, which is about 3.3 miles (close enough for this example).

It's not the icon that's your problem, it's the slow closure rate. Don't blame the icon for the plane flying 100mph or less!

On the other hand, I do agree that seeing the screenshots thus far, it has been pretty cluttered.... Perhaps a "smaller" icon, or some minimal version of it for the WW1 arenas? Really clutters up the sky from the vids and pics I've seen.

NOT because the icons are bad, but because they are ugly as sin.

[BaldEagl]

I think it does not promote the fight.  Any artificial force field that prevents me from getting at the enemies throat is not promoting the fight.  I've flown all the way to bases and they just circle inside and we just circle outside until I auger in disgust.  I'm just asking for a chance to dive in and get them.  I'm ok with some ack.  I'm ok with that being very dangerous, but making it pointless insta-death just does not promote the fight.

All that would do is promote vulching.  Nice fight.

[cattb]

Theres plenty of fighting in the WW1 arenas. There is some people going to the middle for 1v1.
 Skirt the edge of a fight a draw some fighters out. Downfall thou if not far enough out you could be dogpiled.(bring a wingman or 2)
Yes there is people making hot merges. Firing at 400 out for a HO in the first merge of a fight. Not any difference then the MA. Plan ahead and prepare and try not to get HOed.

[SIK1]

I'm having a blast in the WW1 arenas. It is possible to find just about any kind of action you desire. Yes there are those that try to HO on the initial merge, and there are those that only run in the horde, but for the most part people seem to show a little respect in there. Something not often seen in the MA. Hopefully with the emphasis on the dogfight the less skilled at it will either learn or go back to the LWA

Anyway you have to love when a D7 dives down trying to take the HO shot starts firing and doing the nose bob thing HOers do then the gear and wings rip off. The first time I saw that happen I almost augered I was laughing so hard.

[Nr_RaVeN]

On the other hand, I do agree that seeing the screenshots thus far, it has been pretty cluttered.... Perhaps a "smaller" icon, or some minimal version of it for the WW1 arenas? Really clutters up the sky from the vids and pics I've seen.

NOT because the icons are bad, but because they are ugly as sin.

Any Icon is ugly as sin and in that venue with base proximity is unnecessary.

 Any icon in a WWI sim only diffuses the imagery of the WWI experience.
it would be great to have one of the arena's set up with no enemy icon. short friendly icon. Central powers against allied powers... and Watch it grow.
 Build it and they will come.

[CptTrips]

Did you?

Are you ignoring the fact it gives the same people you want to boot out of the field ack another place to circle in safety? So now you've got three places they can hover. That's an improvement?

OK lets compromise.

I'll give up the inter-field ack idea, and you give up the insta-deth field ack.  Deal?   

Do you need it that bad?


Regards,
Wab

[Krusty]

The quality of human eyesight did not improve 20 fold between the wars.

You could see the same things, you just had more time to react and less options for your reaction.

Pretending you need less ability to ID anything, its orientation, it's make, model, the colors on the wings, in WW1 as compared to WW2 is just baseless.

[CptTrips]

I can't believe you're really having a hard time finding targets.

And I can't believe you are co-enabling ack huggers. 

Don't get me wrong Toad.  I do like the current WWI.  That doesn't mean there can't be a few tweaks to add a little more varaiety without getting into full strat.  Again, I'm not talking base captures.


Regards,
Wab

[Toad]

OK lets compromise.

I'll give up the inter-field ack idea, and you give up the insta-deth field ack.  Deal?   

Do you need it that bad?


Regards,
Wab

I think I've been killed by field ack about 3-4 times, all but one at the enemy field. The one time I got killed at my field, I was coming back to land with no fuel and there was an enemy near the field engaged with another friendly. They got all three of us.

If you think I hang in the ack, you obviously haven't been around me at all.

[Toad]

And I can't believe you are co-enabling ack huggers. 

You shouldn't believe it, because I'm doing no such thing. OTOH, I am certainly not going to tell others how to play. This game is FULL of ack huggers; they're all over the MA and !!! surprise !!! they are in WW1 as well. I just ignore them; there's plenty of fighters without worrying about the non-fighters. Sooner or later they come out of the ack anyway. Otherwise, they die of boredom.

Don't get me wrong Toad.  I do like the current WWI.  That doesn't mean there can't be a few tweaks to add a little more varaiety without getting into full strat.  Again, I'm not talking base captures.

I'd be with you except we both know there will NEVER be "a few tweaks". There would be instead a "few tweaks" this week, a "few tweaks" next week, a "few tweaks next month" ad nauseaum.

Two years down the road you'd have the WW2 MA recreated.

Can't let it get started here or the Camel that owns the tent won't be an airplane.






[/quote]

[Miska]

Actually, it turns out that historical flying, at least at the moment, is a very practicable proposition in the WWI arena.  Lets hope the numbers stay up.

AAR 1: Took off from NW Knight field in an F2b with objective of getting recce photos of SW enemy field.  About half way, alt 5k, encountered three EA slightly below me.  Made a couple of guns passes, but more were coming.  Made a last pass and extended east.  Diverted to a secondary objective, a field further east along the river.  Overflew the field at 7k.  As I was taking the pictures, I noticed a D7 at my low 6, about 2000 yards away.  He followed me to a point halfway to my field.  I turned to engage him, made several passes. He lost alt and I broke off. Landed the pics.  Very interesting E fight, very vertical. F2b vs D7.

AAR 2: Took off from same field, F2b, on patrol.  Nearing an enemy field at about 4k, I saw an enemy observer climbing NW away from the field.  After a few minutes chase, he turned and engaged.  This led to an absolutely epic 1v1 that ranged from 5k to the ground.  Just as my aircraft developed a fuel leak, the enemy collided with me.  He fell out of control and hit the ground. I was able to nurse my aircraft to within sight of my field, at which point I ran out of fuel and landed.  I'll try to figure out how to post the film for this because it is worth watching.

AAR 3: Same field, F2b, front patrol.  I reached the SW end of the front at about 7k and flew NE.  I saw an enemy observer flying on his side of the lines, also on a NE heading, about 6k alt.  I paced him with the objective of keeping him on his side of the lines, and shooting him down if I had an opportunity.  Three enemy single seaters were behind us at about 6k alt.  The enemy observer turned N to cross the lines. I put my nose down and intercepted him.  When I got within about 1000 yards on his 9, he turned back.  I climbed back up to 7k.  He continued flying along the front on his side of the lines for several more minutes.  By then, we had outrun the enemy single seaters and I decided to engage.  I crossed to the enemy side of the lines and closed.  After a few passes, I had an energy advantage and he extended south away from the lines.  I put several bursts into him from within 200 yards, and he began leaking fuel. At that moment his gunner came alive and I took a bad burst that wounded me, damaged my fuel tank, and my engine.  I dove for my lines and landed on friendly ground, while my plane was still working.  Very interesting and tactical fight that ranged over the whole length of the front.

The front is very usable.  HT, perhaps it could be a bit longer on a future map?  The map itself doesn't have to be larger, but if the front could cover the entire diagonal instead of just part of it, we'd have an even better playing field. Apparently, there are already few squads and players who enjoy flying a historical mission profile once in a while.  After these rather exhausting flights, I went and got a few kills on the edge of the furball

Vlas

[Miska]

I'd be with you except we both know there will NEVER be "a few tweaks". There would be instead a "few tweaks" this week, a "few tweaks" next week, a "few tweaks next month" ad nauseaum.

Toad, I understand what you are saying, but I think you fail to appreciate that the WWI player is a different species   To most dedicated WWI simmers, the historical atmosphere and the study of conditions is much more important that scores and observable impacts on the arena.  In any case, I'm having a great time.

[CptTrips]

Can't let it get started here or the Camel that owns the tent won't be an airplane.

Well I'm sure there plenty we will disagree on.  Maybe we can find something we do agree on.

I've seen you alot in the DA recently.  Do you think the DA 3 field arangement is better than what is essientially a 2 field arrangement in WWI now? (really a series of 2 field arrangements)
If nothing changed except a 3 field arrangements more like the DA lake, where all three teams could mix it up in the same airspace, and maybe some puffy white clouds at 3k, could you live with that?

P.S.  Sorry for my earlier snippy replies.  Utterly crappy day at work.


,
Wab

[Toad]

Toad, I understand what you are saying, but I think you fail to appreciate that the WWI player is a different species   To most dedicated WWI simmers, the historical atmosphere and the study of conditions is much more important that scores and observable impacts on the arena.  In any case, I'm having a great time.

That's just what we used to say from beta on to about 2-3 years of AH development. I sure don't say it anymore.

[Toad]

Well I'm sure there plenty we will disagree on.  Maybe we can find something we do agree on.

I've seen you alot in the DA recently.  Do you think the DA 3 field arangement is better than what is essientially a 2 field arrangement in WWI now? (really a series of 2 field arrangements)

Yes, except I think the DA Furball Lake area is too small.

It'd be WAY too small for 100 players. Plus, the 5k fields diving to the lake would have to change. I'd like to see regular terrain with three fields spaced farther than Furball Lake with some hills, canyons, trees, buildings. Not a lot farther apart but, certainly more the FL.

My basic premise Wab is that fighters will ALWAYS fight. You don't need gimmicks to get them to engage. They're like a pistol, point them and pull the trigger...they're gone.

The non-fighters, the guys that want to toolshed, really can't be made to fight. You can put a bunch of gimmicks in to get them to expose themselves but they'll never be happy. This will lead to them demanding more restrictive or advantageous gimmicks that just clutter up the fights.

This is all IMO, of course. I know others will disagree.

I think some egos just can't handle getting bested. Thus are born the ack huggers.   

Thankfully, I got over that a long time ago. There's way better sticks than me and I know it. I have my fun though. I win some and lose some. I've had 5 kill sorties followed by 5 sorties where I died without killing one. Not afraid to get shot down, have a ball when I shoot someone else down.