U.S. Census

[BigPlay]

i think what he meant, was that if you want to speak spanish, that's fine......just don't come here, and expect us to learn spanish to communicate with you.........

That's a good one Cap.

[Tigger29]

I am confused, why does America ALWAYS say stuff like Enker where population is concerned. I know why but the Spanish were the first to colonize the New World. It makes sense to me.

P.S: Most American patriots when I question them say to me, YOU WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW. Well guess what. Without us you would be speaking SPANISH/French Right now !! 

If the Spanish speaking people in this country were in fact, from SPAIN then it would be an issue.  The problem is that they are from Mexico.

Now, Mexicans in themselves are not the problem, it's the fact that a huge percentage of them enter and work in this country illegally.  Them living and working here illegally means that they are not paying income taxes, taking jobs from legal American citizens (whether or not these jobs are actually wanted is up for debate), and if they are rounded up and sent home, they just come back again.

That in one sense is bad enough, but the government and large corporations cater to them by offering bi-lingual services, advertising in Spanish AND English, hiring bi-lingual customer service reps, etc. etc.  Heck even some banks and credit card companies are offering accounts WITHOUT a social security number being necessary.

And, to rub salt in the wound, it is required that aliens speak English to become a citizen, so if they WEREN'T catering to the illegals, technically it shouldn't be necessary to offer bilingual services.

[Shuffler]

Back when we lived in Venezuela awhile, my parents paid $2000 each for me and my brother to go to an english speaking school.

Unfortunately those in power here in the US are a little backwards.

While most illegals (can't use the normal term here) come in from mexico many are actually from farther south. Even though mexico treats those caught breaching their southern border harshly.

[oneway]

If the Spanish speaking people in this country were in fact, from SPAIN then it would be an issue.  The problem is that they are from Mexico.

Now, Mexicans in themselves are not the problem, it's the fact that a huge percentage of them enter and work in this country illegally.  Them living and working here illegally means that they are not paying income taxes, taking jobs from legal American citizens (whether or not these jobs are actually wanted is up for debate), and if they are rounded up and sent home, they just come back again.

That in one sense is bad enough, but the government and large corporations cater to them by offering bi-lingual services, advertising in Spanish AND English, hiring bi-lingual customer service reps, etc. etc.  Heck even some banks and credit card companies are offering accounts WITHOUT a social security number being necessary.

One often overlooked issue with the employment of illegal aliens is that they in fact do pay taxes into the system...but never file tax returns. There is a huge incentive to keep the Status quo on the side of the government because the more common occurrence is for those withholding's to never be returned. Its pure profit to the system...it is one of the main reason's that the amendment requiring that eVerify be mandated on all people employed with the so called "Stimulus" dollars was shot down and never got out of committee..

As an employer and contractor I have had my share of employees bounce back as name/number mis-matches when filing quarterly payroll returns. When the employees were confronted with the report...they often just disappear...or come back with documentation that when run through eVerify turns up as fraudulent as well...

And yes I do comply with I9 requirements, and make photo-copies or get photo-copies of all supposed "valid" documentation to cover my tail...

In all cases, given the responsibility of being an employer, they are terminated. At the end of the fiscal year when processing W-2 forms for these ex-employees...I make every effort to contact them and verify their address; I try to personally make arrangements for them to pick up their forms, I do not mail them. The reason I do this is because the residence of these folks is typically inhabited by the same sorts of folks, and the last thing I want to do is send a form that contains a stolen or fake Social Security Number...that in the end would be abused again...

Like I said...tons of these folks get taxed...they never file for a refund...and the government pockets the cash...

Its a scam...

Oneway

[CAP1]

That's a good one Cap.

i can't tell if you're serious, or being sarcastic.....i'm kinda thinking sarcastic........

[Jayhawk]

This hasn't been brought up in a while but I thought it should.  I was also annoyed when I got the letter informing me that I'd be getting a letter...  The Census folks claim that these early notices can boost responses by 6%, and for every 1% increase it saves $85 million.

Seems like a somewhat exaggerated number to me but I don't know the raw data.  It is very possible the letters actually saved money.

Anyway mine is filled out, I'm happy that I'll be counted for representation and I don't feel any of the other information is that pervasive.

[CAP1]

One often overlooked issue with the employment of illegal aliens is that they in fact do pay taxes into the system...but never file tax returns. There is a huge incentive to keep the Status quo on the side of the government because the more common occurrence is for those withholding's to never be returned. Its pure profit to the system...it is one of the main reason's that the amendment requiring that eVerify be mandated on all people employed with the so called "Stimulus" dollars was shot down and never got out of committee..

As an employer and contractor I have had my share of employees bounce back as name/number mis-matches when filing quarterly payroll returns. When the employees were confronted with the report...they often just disappear...or come back with documentation that when run through eVerify turns up as fraudulent as well...

And yes I do comply with I9 requirements, and make photo-copies or get photo-copies of all supposed "valid" documentation to cover my tail...

In all cases, given the responsibility of being an employer, they are terminated. At the end of the fiscal year when processing W-2 forms for these ex-employees...I make every effort to contact them and verify their address; I try to personally make arrangements for them to pick up their forms, I do not mail them. The reason I do this is because the residence of these folks is typically inhabited by the same sorts of folks, and the last thing I want to do is send a form that contains a stolen or fake Social Security Number...that in the end would be abused again...

Like I said...tons of these folks get taxed...they never file for a refund...and the government pockets the cash...

Its a scam...

Oneway

i disagree with this.
illegal immigrants usually work "under the table" as they can't legally have taxes withheld. so an employer paying juan valdez cash, is not contributing to the system at all........

[oneway]

You obviously disagree with some aspect (perhaps all) of my post...as to which aspect, I am uncertain, given your general broad brush "paint all" response...

Your notion is that most illegals work under the table is wrong...

I would guess you are not an employer of human resources as a matter of daily fact...

Aside from the fact that "most illegals are under the table" is patently false...

Are you arguing that the government is ignorant to the apparent and yet beneficial flaw in the status quo that lines their pockets...or you simply casting and painting with a broad brush that all illegals work under the table...that is the cheap and easy out...

Both assumptions ignore the reality of human behavior and my real world experience....

I can assure you that most illegals do not work under the table...and I can equally assure you that the government loves the free money it gets in padding its unfunded liability ledger with what are in essence, "free and clear" contributions to an  inevitably unsustainable obligation/entitlement system...

Social Security is going broke and this month marks the first time in history that the SSA has begun cashing in its IOU's to the Treasury/Fed....the so called trust fund...

Watch the dead lock on amnesty drag on for this very reason...

Sorry...but you are wrong...

Understand the government loves this...they get the money...and they don't issue refunds....

Like I said before...its a scam...

Oneway

[2ADoc]

My wife brought up a good question, why dont they just use the income tax form.  Everyone has to fill one out whether or not you made any money.  If for some reason you do not fill out an income tax form then most likely the person is either not a contributing member of the american society, or here illeagle.  Either way you do not count, in my eyes, and I should not have to worry about your numbers either adding to what the government already pays for out of my pocket, or getting the numbers of my area infalated.  We just filled ours out, they asked for pur phone number, with the reason if they dont understand something they may call.  How could they not understand our answers, they selected them.  I live in south Texas, there are MANY illeagles here, most contribute to society by doing jobs I wont, but some are the stereotypical, dopers, gangbangers, and the like.  How in the name of Fetals butthole do they count, asAamericans, or being in America.  I am ready for the Scuzzification.

[SIK1]

Not everyone has to fill out an income tax form. If you make less than a certain amount in a year you are not required to submit an income tax form.
There are also those that think if they do not file an income tax the gov doesn't know they exist. I have a buddy from high school that use to think this, ask him how it worked out for him.

[CAP1]

You obviously disagree with some aspect (perhaps all) of my post...as to which aspect, I am uncertain, given your general broad brush "paint all" response...

Your notion is that most illegals work under the table is wrong...

I would guess you are not an employer of human resources as a matter of daily fact...

Aside from the fact that "most illegals are under the table" is patently false...

Are you arguing that the government is ignorant to the apparent and yet beneficial flaw in the status quo that lines their pockets...or you simply casting and painting with a broad brush that all illegals work under the table...that is the cheap and easy out...

Both assumptions ignore the reality of human behavior and my real world experience....

I can assure you that most illegals do not work under the table...and I can equally assure you that the government loves the free money it gets in padding its unfunded liability ledger with what are in essence, "free and clear" contributions to an  inevitably unsustainable obligation/entitlement system...

Social Security is going broke and this month marks the first time in history that the SSA has begun cashing in its IOU's to the Treasury/Fed....the so called trust fund...

Watch the dead lock on amnesty drag on for this very reason...

Sorry...but you are wrong...

Understand the government loves this...they get the money...and they don't issue refunds....

Like I said before...its a scam...

Oneway

i should have been more clear......and i'm not trying to discount what you say.

all experience i've had with illegals, is that they are indeed working for cash, and not paying taxes.

 i had one that although he lives in marlton nj, has a pensylvania dl? why you might ask? simple. nj will not issue a dl to an illegal, but pa does.

 i know for fact that at least 3 local landscapers are doing this. i'm pretty certain it happens in north jersey. if it happens here, it happens elsewhere.

 if they're illegal, they(as far as i know) cannot pay taxes, 'cause me as an employer can't legally claim them as an employee.

[SIK1]

Not all illegals work for cash some use stolen SS#. Which can lead to problems for the actual SS# holder when the IRS comes knocking saying that you owe this money for that work you were doing. Had it happen to a guy I worked with, and the IRS is relentless, mindless, and they don't care what you have to say. They just want the money they think you owe.  The only way to deal with the IRS in a situation like this is to get a lawyer and it ends up costing the citizen even more time and money.

So in that case yes the illegals would be paying taxes, but they get far more than they put in. In the form of government programs like welfare and medicare.

[Maverick]

Cap,

There are tons of illegals that do apply for salary positions and provide fictitious documents all the time. The new law in AZ. that had an immediate effect on this was when employers were going to be prosecuted for hiring them. There was an almost immediate outflow to other areas of the illegals that were working here. I talked to more than one employer and a couple of accountants that had to deal with the bogus SS numbers on tax forms. Until the law changed, a lot of the employers just didn't care. Once the penalties were shifted to the employer they started to care.

[CAP1]

Cap,

There are tons of illegals that do apply for salary positions and provide fictitious documents all the time. The new law in AZ. that had an immediate effect on this was when employers were going to be prosecuted for hiring them. There was an almost immediate outflow to other areas of the illegals that were working here. I talked to more than one employer and a couple of accountants that had to deal with the bogus SS numbers on tax forms. Until the law changed, a lot of the employers just didn't care. Once the penalties were shifted to the employer they started to care.

that's what has to be done then.

if they're using stolen paperwork, they're still putting a strain on the system..........

but i think i've said in other threads that the responsibility should be put on the employers. i didn't know anyone already did that, and thank you for letting us know.....hopefully others follow suit. 

[oneway]

Cap,

There are tons of illegals that do apply for salary positions and provide fictitious documents all the time. The new law in AZ. that had an immediate effect on this was when employers were going to be prosecuted for hiring them. There was an almost immediate outflow to other areas of the illegals that were working here. I talked to more than one employer and a couple of accountants that had to deal with the bogus SS numbers on tax forms. Until the law changed, a lot of the employers just didn't care. Once the penalties were shifted to the employer they started to care.

Maverick is dead on right here...

The flip side of greed is capital preservation...unless or until you make it painful on employers...they will look the other way..they will leverage the lax rules.

Why?

Because the playing field is so defined. Morally pure employers are voluntarily assuming a competitive disadvantage...which is contrary to the very fabric that defines them...the nature of employers is a sense of self preservation...thus...even those such as myself that despise the status quo...are forced to leverage the rule set...

It is a horrible position to be in...moral hell...and we can thank our overseers for that..

You want to stop this nonsense...then we must level the field and go after the employers...plain and simple...

And I am employer...and I would welcome it....

Bring it...and lets stop pressing 2 for Spanish...

Oneway

Edit Oh: Pain is defined as Capital Degradation...the most powerful form of persuasion...make it hurt....