New sniper record

[RTHolmes]

The ballistic characteristics of the 338 Lapua Magnum 2500 yards down range

Are you paying attention?

  once again. what about the ballistics? specifically.


help me out here, even using a lower muzzle velocity of 2800fps (not sure why you'd ignore the MoD figure of 3070fps) your figures show that the bullet will arrive 2400yd downrange packing more KE than a point blank fired .357mag. I'm told that is enough energy to put a guy down.

[oneway]

Fair enough.

You got it...

Basically bullet drop starts the moment the bullet leaves the muzzle, and accelerates at the gravitational constant of 9.8M/sec*sec (32 fps +-)...

Of course the angle at which the bullet leaves the muzzle relative to horizontal (perpendicular to gravity) also has something to do with it. Bullets shot both 'up hill' and 'down hill' drop less than bullets shot perpendicular to the force of gravity because a component of their trajectory can then be applied to the to or against the force of gravity.

Bullets shot down hill have a minuscule edge over bullets shot up hill because gravity becomes 'negative drag' and the time of flight is reduced...though the advantage as stated earlier is minute...

Oneway

[kilo2]

I think you may be out of your element oneway. As you do not know how many grains are packed in, what kind of powder was used if they used hollow point (which everything I have read is less superior to FMJs in every way other than stopping power) or not, the elevation of the shooter and the elevation of the target, the weather. You do not have enough information to make a for sure assessment of what happened. What you do have is a web site calculator.

[Scherf]

Hmm, as you say, even if it doesn't lose any velocity after leaving the muzzle, at 3100 fps it's going to be affected by gravit to the tune of around 67 meters. (Ghosts of science teachers past heard screaming about mixed units.)

Could he even see over the barrel at that rate?


NOTA BENE - I'm not a shooter, nor do I play one on the internet.

[Gman]

For anyone interested, 1 of these 2 were likely the rifles that held the Canadian record from back on the Whale Operation in 2002/3 in A-Stan.  To answer Morhpiend's question, 750 Gr AMAX would be a reasonable assumption.




As for the Brit shot, a big salute, as for .338 Lap that is truly an extremely long range even with the "tee hee" ammo being used.  .416 or .408 caliber of rifle would have been impressive enough for an 8000 ft shot.....Top Drawer Lads!

[68ZooM]

I found this really cool sight lots of info and history of Snipers, interesting reading for those interested

http://www.snipercountry.com/SnipHistory.asp

[oneway]

I think you may be out of your element oneway. As you do not know how many grains are packed in, what kind of powder was used if they used hollow point (which everything I have read is less superior to FMJs in every way other than stopping power) or not, the elevation of the shooter and the elevation of the target, the weather. You do not have enough information to make a for sure assessment of what happened. What you do have is a web site calculator.

You obviously have read and understand wrong...

and ... have never done any competitive long range shooting...and have never fired the Lap...

It boils down to Ballistic Coefficients...full metal jacket is cute catch phrase for an all clad bullet...

Hollow Point Boat Tail Match bullets far exceed any FMJ offering...

Full Metal Jacket means nothing in terms of terminal velocity and energy....it simply describes the construction of the projectile...

If you want to penetrate Kevlar at close range choose FMJ...if you want bullets that reach far down range and ON target your going to load HPBT and load it up heavy with slow burning powder in a long barrel with slow twist...and your going to shoot for the head or other soft elements of the target...

Further your going to choose Match grade projectiles...projectiles that fall within a very narrow weight range and centric gravity mean...there is a reason why FMJ is not offered in a Match Grade profile...because its a waste of time and money to even contemplate it...

Further still I do not need to know how many grains are 'packed in'...the 338 Lapua like every other round can only be packed so tight...it can only be loaded so far...given the pressures and what not of typical and atypical loads...the 300 grain load is stuck in the 2800 fps neck of the woods...and besides if you were psycho enough to push it north of 2900...it would have very little effect on the terminal ballistics...not enough to over come the obvious BS of a shot whose apogee was 83 feet above the line of sight, and elapsed time to target was around 4.25 seconds...not to mention the article claims that he got off 3 rounds-2 kills and 1 equipment kill....

Now come again...and tell me I am off point...


Oneway

The United States Army uses Sierra 77 grain and Hornady 75 grain HPBT Match Grade bullets for their .223 based variants of SDM/SAM rifles on the M16 platform...utilizing the slow 1:7 twist and slow burning powders such as Varget...the 77/75 grain bullets are the Largest that the 223 can handle...

They DO NOT use FMJ for operators needing to reach out and touch...when utilizing FMJ constructs 99.9% of the time its a 55 grain FMJ-BT slug and its produced by Hornady...and its what the day to day guys get for their M4's...all of the SDM/SDA are rolling with 77's and 75's...

Now if this Knuck is shooting out to 2500 with the Lap he is certainly rolling with HPBT and he is certainly rolling with the heaviest slug the Lap can throw at 300 grains...thus 83 feet vertical displacement and 4.25 seconds eta to target +/-...

Now go ahead and tell me how this guy got 2.5 kills given those params?

Keep the full metal jacket commentary on the Counter Strike forum...while your grabbing the double pistols as T

[kilo2]

Well you can believe it is a impossible shot thats your opinion no I have not fired the lap. You do not have the all the facts on the 2 shots so you can never be a 100% and neither can I. They made it all up oneway for whatever reason. You take the skeptic route and I will take the other.

never played counter strike is it a good game?

[Vulcan]

I nailed a hare today @ 100m with my Savage 22 (4x scope), does that count? .... god I love CCI Stingers

[RTHolmes]

Now if this Knuck is shooting out to 2500 with the Lap he is certainly rolling with HPBT and he is certainly rolling with the heaviest slug the Lap can throw at 300 grains...thus 83 feet vertical displacement and 4.25 seconds eta to target +/-...

AI/MoD quote 3070fps which suggests a lighter round than 300gr. plug in 3070fps and (commercially available) Lost River J40 270gr, using local environmental conditions (I just used a clear still day from Khandahar last week) and we get:

Calculated Table
Range   Drop   Drop   Windage   Windage   Velocity   Mach   Energy   Time   Lead   Lead
(yd)   (in)   (MOA)   (in)   (MOA)   (ft/s)   (none)   (J)   (s)   (in)   (MOA)
0    -2    ***    0    ***    3073.2    2.684    7675.7    0.000    0    ***
100    -0    -0    0    0    2977.7    2.600    7205.9    0.099    0    0
200    -2    -1    1    0    2884.2    2.519    6760.5    0.202    0    0
300    -9    -3    1    0    2792.6    2.439    6338.0    0.307    0    0
400    -20    -5    2    1    2702.9    2.360    5937.2    0.416    0    0
500    -36    -7    4    1    2614.9    2.283    5556.9    0.529    0    0
600    -57    -9    5    1    2528.5    2.208    5196.1    0.646    0    0
700    -83    -11    7    1    2443.9    2.134    4853.8    0.767    0    0
800    -115    -14    10    1    2360.8    2.062    4529.4    0.892    0    0
900    -154    -16    13    1    2279.3    1.990    4222.0    1.021    0    0
1000    -199    -19    16    2    2199.3    1.921    3931.0    1.155    0    0
1100    -251    -22    19    2    2121.0    1.852    3656.0    1.294    0    0
1200    -311    -25    23    2    2044.3    1.785    3396.4    1.438    0    0
1300    -379    -28    28    2    1969.3    1.720    3151.9    1.587    0    0
1400    -457    -31    33    2    1896.2    1.656    2922.0    1.743    0    0
1500    -544    -35    39    2    1824.8    1.594    2706.3    1.904    0    0
1600    -641    -38    45    3    1755.5    1.533    2504.5    2.072    0    0
1700    -750    -42    52    3    1688.2    1.474    2316.3    2.246    0    0
1800    -871    -46    59    3    1623.2    1.417    2141.3    2.427    0    0
1900    -1005    -51    67    3    1560.6    1.363    1979.3    2.616    0    0
2000    -1153    -55    76    4    1500.5    1.310    1829.8    2.812    0    0
2100    -1317    -60    85    4    1443.2    1.260    1692.6    3.016    0    0
2200    -1498    -65    95    4    1388.7    1.213    1567.4    3.229    0    0
2300    -1697    -70    106    4    1337.5    1.168    1453.8    3.449    0    0
2400    -1915    -76    117    5    1289.6    1.126    1351.5    3.678    0    0
2500    -2154    -82    130    5    1245.2    1.087    1260.2    3.915    0    0
2600    -2416    -89    143    5    1204.7    1.052    1179.5    4.161    0    0
2700    -2701    -96    157    6    1168.1    1.020    1108.8    4.415    0    0

thats 1.1KJ KE, and the round is still just supersonic at 2700yd ...

[Flench]

I found this really cool sight lots of info and history of Snipers, interesting reading for those interested

http://www.snipercountry.com/SnipHistory.asp

Nice link 68ZooM , Thanks bro ..

[Masherbrum]

You obviously have read and understand wrong...

and ... have never done any competitive long range shooting...and have never fired the Lap...

It boils down to Ballistic Coefficients...full metal jacket is cute catch phrase for an all clad bullet...

Hollow Point Boat Tail Match bullets far exceed any FMJ offering...

Full Metal Jacket means nothing in terms of terminal velocity and energy....it simply describes the construction of the projectile...

If you want to penetrate Kevlar at close range choose FMJ...if you want bullets that reach far down range and ON target your going to load HPBT and load it up heavy with slow burning powder in a long barrel with slow twist...and your going to shoot for the head or other soft elements of the target...

Further your going to choose Match grade projectiles...projectiles that fall within a very narrow weight range and centric gravity mean...there is a reason why FMJ is not offered in a Match Grade profile...because its a waste of time and money to even contemplate it...

Further still I do not need to know how many grains are 'packed in'...the 338 Lapua like every other round can only be packed so tight...it can only be loaded so far...given the pressures and what not of typical and atypical loads...the 300 grain load is stuck in the 2800 fps neck of the woods...and besides if you were psycho enough to push it north of 2900...it would have very little effect on the terminal ballistics...not enough to over come the obvious BS of a shot whose apogee was 83 feet above the line of sight, and elapsed time to target was around 4.25 seconds...not to mention the article claims that he got off 3 rounds-2 kills and 1 equipment kill....

Now come again...and tell me I am off point...


Oneway

The United States Army uses Sierra 77 grain and Hornady 75 grain HPBT Match Grade bullets for their .223 based variants of SDM/SAM rifles on the M16 platform...utilizing the slow 1:7 twist and slow burning powders such as Varget...the 77/75 grain bullets are the Largest that the 223 can handle...

They DO NOT use FMJ for operators needing to reach out and touch...when utilizing FMJ constructs 99.9% of the time its a 55 grain FMJ-BT slug and its produced by Hornady...and its what the day to day guys get for their M4's...all of the SDM/SDA are rolling with 77's and 75's...

Now if this Knuck is shooting out to 2500 with the Lap he is certainly rolling with HPBT and he is certainly rolling with the heaviest slug the Lap can throw at 300 grains...thus 83 feet vertical displacement and 4.25 seconds eta to target +/-...

Now go ahead and tell me how this guy got 2.5 kills given those params?

Keep the full metal jacket commentary on the Counter Strike forum...while your grabbing the double pistols as T

I'd believe the Sniper, before yourself.   He was firing from an elevated position and you are still going around in circles.

We keep hearing "the story is bogus" from you and not much else.   You're too busy playing "know-it-all" to realize two things:

1.   He was again, FIRING FROM AN ELEVATED POSITION
2.   You don't have a clue on how high up he was.   None of us do, but he was not "on the ground".   

You need to stop while you think you're ahead.   

[Tec]

I'm enjoying this debate, so lets keep it going.  According to the article he aimed 6' high, according to Holmes ballistic tables (unless I'm reading it wrong or my calculator is broken) that round would drop 225'.  Discuss.

Holmes could you run a .50bmg round through that program once just for comparison sake?

[Terror]

the 77/75 grain bullets are the Largest that the 223 can handle...

BTW, I have personally fired 88gr 5.56mm through my AR15.  I pretty sure I have heard of 90 gr for the 5.56mm ... 

Terror

[saggs]

I'm enjoying this debate, so lets keep it going.  According to the article he aimed 6' high, according to Holmes ballistic tables (unless I'm reading it wrong or my calculator is broken) that round would drop 225'.  Discuss.

Holmes could you run a .50bmg round through that program once just for comparison sake?

I believe what the article states is that he "aimed" 6' above target.

I interpret that as he had to place the crosshair 6' above target, meaning the round dropped 6' more then he had elevation adjustment for with his scope. 

Put another way he had to aim 6' higher then he had scope adjustment for. 



... if the round did only drop 6' then I must again conclude that the British have mini anti-gravity drives embedded in their bullets.   

I'm still inclined to believe the story as well, I just watched video of the "Future Weapons" guy nail a target first shot at 2500yds with a Barrett .416, made it look super easy. and that was on the level with target.   Even thought the Lapua .338 isn't as good as the .416, it leads me to believe that if you give the .338 a "handicap" so to speak of some significant elevation and perfect atmospheric conditions, it's not at all outside the realm of possibility.

PS I got 3,070 fps muzzle velocity when I googled the Lapua magnum round as well, don't know where oneways 2,800 number came from.