Rangoon Sunrise frame 1 ...

[Kermit de frog]

This only applies to when both sides have targets to defend and attack.  It's up to the CIC's to create orders for these tactics for implementation.  

However, the current FSO has the Axis attacking for all 3 frames and the Allies defending all 3 frames.  Why would an Allied CIC need to create orders for any of that when the only tactic is to say, "Squads stay close and stay high.  Enemy will arrive over target before T+60."

The Allied CIC will have double the normal amount of squads for defense.  This set-up has no 'chess like appeal'.  It's simply a brute force combat in the favor of the Allies.

The only acceptable set-up for one side to be attacking all three frames is a late war for Allied.  The Axis has the fighters to defend and the Allies have the bombers to do both damage and to defend.  Each FSO should have both sides attacking and defending.

1) It is NOT solely up to the CiC to implement said tactics.  Ask FSO Frame 1 CiC if any of the squadron Leaders actually coordinated tactics with other groups prior to the frame via emails or Forum PMs.  You will find that this occurred.

2) The reason V20 defense was so successful was partly due to the Allied CiC of NOT telling us "Squads stay close and stay high.  Enemy will arrive over target before T+60."  It was also partly due to the adaptation and teamwork the V20 Defense squadrons performed.  It took lots of work and luck to stop the attackers heading to V20.  After being attacked constantly for over 40 miles, 1-2 Vals still made it to the target.  Had we waited over the target for the Vals, there wouldn't have been enough time to kill them all.

3) Ask the Muppets about their success in their attempt at "chess-like" gameplay in Frame 1 of FSO last week.  These said tactics were applied and with success.  I'm sure there are other who had success with chess like maneuvers.

4) In the Rangoon Scenario 2008, brute force by the Axis was attempted in Frame 4 with GREAT success, despite the advantages the defending Allies had.

5)  I believe it to be acceptable for any era to have a defend only or attack only FSO.  Bombers need escorts to survive for most operations, both in Aces High and during WWII.  I believe FSO squadrons are capable of accepting responsibility of protecting the bombers to their targets.

More tips I've been told to use by many other AH players:
If the defenders do stay "high" over the target, come in low.  If the defenders are all bunched up nicely for you attackers, then put in that fighter sweep to disrupt the attention of the defenders and get those vals to dive through the enemy where all they need are a few seconds to survive.

Life finds a way to succeed.

<S> AKKuya

[gyrene81]

The only acceptable set-up for one side to be attacking all three frames is a late war for Allied.  The Axis has the fighters to defend and the Allies have the bombers to do both damage and to defend.  Each FSO should have both sides attacking and defending.

Kuya, what would make you say that? If that's the case then NO early war setups should be run for FSO, ever. The way some people are talking on this discussion FSO should only have a "historical flair" nothing more...and that is just lame.

[AKKuya]

1) It is NOT solely up to the CiC to implement said tactics.  Ask FSO Frame 1 CiC if any of the squadron Leaders actually coordinated tactics with other groups prior to the frame via emails or Forum PMs.  You will find that this occurred.

2) The reason V20 defense was so successful was partly due to the Allied CiC of NOT telling us "Squads stay close and stay high.  Enemy will arrive over target before T+60."  It was also partly due to the adaptation and teamwork the V20 Defense squadrons performed.  It took lots of work and luck to stop the attackers heading to V20.  After being attacked constantly for over 40 miles, 1-2 Vals still made it to the target.  Had we waited over the target for the Vals, there wouldn't have been enough time to kill them all.

3) Ask the Muppets about their success in their attempt at "chess-like" gameplay in Frame 1 of FSO last week.  These said tactics were applied and with success.  I'm sure there are other who had success with chess like maneuvers.

4) In the Rangoon Scenario 2008, brute force by the Axis was attempted in Frame 4 with GREAT success, despite the advantages the defending Allies had.

5)  I believe it to be acceptable for any era to have a defend only or attack only FSO.  Bombers need escorts to survive for most operations, both in Aces High and during WWII.  I believe FSO squadrons are capable of accepting responsibility of protecting the bombers to their targets.

More tips I've been told to use by many other AH players:
If the defenders do stay "high" over the target, come in low.  If the defenders are all bunched up nicely for you attackers, then put in that fighter sweep to disrupt the attention of the defenders and get those vals to dive through the enemy where all they need are a few seconds to survive.

Life finds a way to succeed.

<S> AKKuya

What you said Kermit is correct.  All I'm saying is that when one side is 100% defending.  Why would a CIC have orders for scout squads on patrol?  The FSO rules state that all targets must be hit before T+60.  Logically, the defending squads just have to racetrack around the targets.  The attacking squads are bound to show up sometime between T+0 to T+60.

When both sides are attacking and defending, then scouts are necessary.  They are the early detection for defending squads.  This allows for the defending squads to move to the direction of the oncoming attack force.

I'm just pointing out the intent of the FSO from the outside looking in.  The specifics of the CIC orders and the tactics of the squad leaders via communication for coordination is what FSO is all about.  That is not in question.

Frame 1 had 5 targets for the Allied to defend.  211 Allied pilots all in fighters.  214 Axis pilots in mix of fighters and bombers.  Axis had 93 kills to the Allied with 153 kills.

Early war set-up with Axis 100% attacking with a limited plane set has no real balance to game play since the whole purpose of FSO now is to have balanced gameplay for all to see some type of action.

The way I see the current FSO with the limited Japanese planeset is good target practice for the Allied.  How hard is it to shoot down a D3A?  How hard is it to shoot down the B-25?  Quite frankly, they are very easy to do.  Just look at the logs and see the results.  Some did survive of course but with Hurri's, I-16's, Brewsters, and P-40's defending, each one is more than able to make mincemeat out of the Axis bombers.

Roughly 80 D3A's and the 12 sets of B-25's comprised half of the Axis force.  That left roughly around 120 A6M2's against 211 Allied fighters.

Now, 3 squads have been moved from Allied to Axis for Frames 2 and 3.  This will help with the lopsided effect of Frame 1.

<S> Kermit

Kuya, what would make you say that? If that's the case then NO early war setups should be run for FSO, ever. The way some people are talking on this discussion FSO should only have a "historical flair" nothing more...and that is just lame.

Early war set-ups are always welcome for FSO.  This is the first one I've seen where the entire Axis side is attacking 100% for all 3 frames.  The hardest part of them is the limited planesets.  The Axis planeset has no real chance of success compared to the Allied planeset with the initial split between Axis and Allied squads.  At least a 60% Axis and 40% Allied would even things out a bit.

<S> gyrene81

[gyrene81]

Early war set-ups are always welcome for FSO.  This is the first one I've seen where the entire Axis side is attacking 100% for all 3 frames.  The hardest part of them is the limited planesets.  The Axis planeset has no real chance of success compared to the Allied planeset with the initial split between Axis and Allied squads.  At least a 60% Axis and 40% Allied would even things out a bit.

<S> gyrene81

Ah now I get ya...very true. Too bad we don't have the G4M.

<S> AKKuya

[Stoney]

This is the first one I've seen where the entire Axis side is attacking 100% for all 3 frames.

Battle of Britain setup had the Germans attacking all 3 frames.  I've already said this a few times, but what happened Frame 1 was simply a numbers issue.  As long as the turnout is similar to Frame 1, Frame 2 should correct the imbalance in sides.  A couple of things happened that I didn't anticipate, ok?

[AKKuya]

Battle of Britain setup had the Germans attacking all 3 frames.  I've already said this a few times, but what happened Frame 1 was simply a numbers issue.  As long as the turnout is similar to Frame 1, Frame 2 should correct the imbalance in sides.  A couple of things happened that I didn't anticipate, ok?

Rgr on that.

[thorsim]

well now when IJN kicks butt in the next two frames there will be an " * " hanging over the victory ...

GL everyone ...

any word on the command staff pre frame planning meetings and how that is handled?

[InCrypt]

Here's a suggestion.

It presumes that the intention of this frame is to re-create the historical situation where the Allied had very little warning when an IJN attack was in-bound against one of their bases. To introduce that sense of desperation, that urgency to get into the air in order to counter the attack, we need to give the Axis some form of advantage. Either a numerical advantage, or a height advantage. As the CIC appear to strive to keep both sides numerically equal, then next option would be to introduce a height advantage to the Axis.
The most simple way would be to delay the allied from taking off for thirty minutes, thus giving the axis the requisite height advantage, and introducing that sense of urgency that the allied pilots of the time would experience. But honestly, who wand's to sit around in the tower for half an hour. Not me.
So I had this thought. Have all the Allied pilots spawn in jeeps from a vehicle base. They are then required to drive across to the airfield where only then can they up in a plane. Some pilots may even choose to stay in a jeep and defend the base with guns! I would imagine that the twenty to thirty minute race across the land, trying to get to an airfield before the strike happens would even induce enough anxiety that some may capsize their jeeps. FSO rules would apply and they'd be out (Victim of a car crash ). This way, the Axis have their delay so they can get to altitude, and closer to base, and the allied have something to do for 30 minutes.

Just a thought.

[AKKuya]

Here's a suggestion.

It presumes that the intention of this frame is to re-create the historical situation where the Allied had very little warning when an IJN attack was in-bound against one of their bases. To introduce that sense of desperation, that urgency to get into the air in order to counter the attack, we need to give the Axis some form of advantage. Either a numerical advantage, or a height advantage. As the CIC appear to strive to keep both sides numerically equal, then next option would be to introduce a height advantage to the Axis.
The most simple way would be to delay the allied from taking off for thirty minutes, thus giving the axis the requisite height advantage, and introducing that sense of urgency that the allied pilots of the time would experience. But honestly, who wand's to sit around in the tower for half an hour. Not me.
So I had this thought. Have all the Allied pilots spawn in jeeps from a vehicle base. They are then required to drive across to the airfield where only then can they up in a plane. Some pilots may even choose to stay in a jeep and defend the base with guns! I would imagine that the twenty to thirty minute race across the land, trying to get to an airfield before the strike happens would even induce enough anxiety that some may capsize their jeeps. FSO rules would apply and they'd be out (Victim of a car crash ). This way, the Axis have their delay so they can get to altitude, and closer to base, and the allied have something to do for 30 minutes.

Just a thought.

 

[Kermit de frog]

 

I'm down with this idea.   

[TUK]

Co duty is becoming more and more important these days.  Cic orders are quick, and split with the objectives' rules and numbers.  
It is up to the Co's, to do the homework now,(fuel,loadout, ect), to make contact with squads in same package, (pre-flight).
I am one to note, that pre-flight contact with other co's and their pilots works.. It takes alot of guessing out of the game.  
Contact with your allies, in your package, plus pre-sent e-mails to your squadrant, will make your Fso's alot funner on the average... Peace out ............

[AKP]

Co duty is becoming more and more important these days.  Cic orders are quick, and split with the objectives' rules and numbers.  
It is up to the Co's, to do the homework now,(fuel,loadout, ect), to make contact with squads in same package, (pre-flight).
I am one to note, that pre-flight contact with other co's and their pilots works.. It takes alot of guessing out of the game.  
Contact with your allies, in your package, plus pre-sent e-mails to your squadrant, will make your Fso's alot funner on the average... Peace out ............

As it should be in my opinion...

- Target assignments come from the CM's
- CiC's assign squadrons to attack, escort, or defense, and which aircraft they will use.
- CO's plan routes, loadouts, and tactics.  Then coordinate with the other squadrons in their group. 

But... in order for this to work effectively, the CiC's need to get the orders out to the CO's as fast as they can.  That gives the squads 2 or 3 days to plan and practice before FSO.

[TUK]

As it should be in my opinion...

- Target assignments come from the CM's
- CiC's assign squadrons to attack, escort, or defense, and which aircraft they will use.
- CO's plan routes, loadouts, and tactics.  Then coordinate with the other squadrons in their group.  

But... in order for this to work effectively, the CiC's need to get the orders out to the CO's as fast as they can.  That gives the squads 2 or 3 days to plan and practice before FSO.

Well said AKP. No doubt, orders' need to go out asap.  
I totally admire Kermits' and AkKuya's  posts'  in this thread.  I was on the other end as the AK's.   We were in b25's as well, and we had a great frame.  Got in contact with the JG11 and the AOM's. I didnt tell them what to do (because they know more than me) but i told them when we were going to show up to the party.  
If we would have gotten smoked, I would have worked all week to get my guys' morale back up. Understanding, that it happens sometimes in (FSO), you just get whooped.  
 I like the set-up, and I hope you  will get the frame you need to like the set-up as well... Salute FSo...  out..

[Wreked]

If the feeling is that an altitude advantage at the start would even the playing field for the Axis (and for that matter be more historic)......BUT the Allied don't want to wait around on the field waiting for the buffs to gain altitude (or can live with a 10min or so wait) ....then ......

....give buffs an AIR Start - perhaps 10-12 K - that will shorten their arrival time for them over the fields.

Not sure how the Zekes  would do trying to catch up tho.

....cheers eh!

[AKP]

If the feeling is that an altitude advantage at the start would even the playing field for the Axis (and for that matter be more historic)......BUT the Allied don't want to wait around on the field waiting for the buffs to gain altitude (or can live with a 10min or so wait) ....then ......

....give buffs an AIR Start - perhaps 10-12 K - that will shorten their arrival time for them over the fields.

Not sure how the Zekes  would do trying to catch up tho.

....cheers eh!

Why not air-start the whole strike group?