Interesting KI-61 Skin

[oboe]

This 18th Sentai Bird is a hottie too. 

(Image removed from quote.)

Very sharp!   Nice find, Shifty!

[lyric1]

The overall paint scheme is legit, but I believe there is some debate as to the shamrock being painted on after it was found by the troops taking pictures of it.

At least, that's what I recall when looking up decal references and scale model forums way back.

 

Well I can put this one to rest. The book was first released back in the 70's & I would guess the name of the pilot came to light much later on after this book was first published. It is legit how ever the paint colours are all wrong in the profile though. The author of the book took all the photos & sketches & descriptions of what the aircraft in the picture looked like.

[Krusty]

You misunderstand... There never was a clover. A clover is not a Japanese cultural symbol. It is most likely a katabami.

A well reasoned argument by somebody with a pretty good description of the cultural background behind it:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/ki61.htm#Re: Ki-61 I Tony "Clover-leaf"

It would take a bit of work and some research to hand-craft the katabami and fill in its shape (the photo does not help).

Further, it is very hard to tell if this aircraft is green or dark "chocolate brown," as both were widespread at the end of the war. The only thing known is that it was not bare metal, and that doesn't help a potential skinner.


As you can see, overall this skin choice is fraught with subjectivity, hand-crafting a symbol that can't really be seen, choosing between 2 very different colors because the picture is black and white, trying to figure out any other details (like the yellow lightning bolt through the kill shapes).

That it existed is not in doubt. What it actually looked like, nobody can say.

EDIT: I've run across a comment or two that there exists only the 1 photograph of it, and I haven't turned up anything else other than "artwork" interpretations other than the photo you've shown.

It's been a bit of a debate for years in model-building circles.

[lyric1]

You misunderstand... There never was a clover. A clover is not a Japanese cultural symbol. It is most likely a katabami.

A well reasoned argument by somebody with a pretty good description of the cultural background behind it:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/ki61.htm#Re: Ki-61 I Tony "Clover-leaf"

It would take a bit of work and some research to hand-craft the katabami and fill in its shape (the photo does not help).

Further, it is very hard to tell if this aircraft is green or dark "chocolate brown," as both were widespread at the end of the war. The only thing known is that it was not bare metal, and that doesn't help a potential skinner.


As you can see, overall this skin choice is fraught with subjectivity, hand-crafting a symbol that can't really be seen, choosing between 2 very different colors because the picture is black and white, trying to figure out any other details (like the yellow lightning bolt through the kill shapes).

That it existed is not in doubt. What it actually looked like, nobody can say.

EDIT: I've run across a comment or two that there exists only the 1 photograph of it, and I haven't turned up anything else other than "artwork" interpretations other than the photo you've shown.

It's been a bit of a debate for years in model-building circles.

Are you saying the author of the book who drew the sketch & who also took the photo & wrote the description of the aircraft got all of that wrong? I could see the confusion over the cultural aspect of what kind of leaf it is.

When you have some one who is almost touching the plane takes the picture then hand draws it & describes it in detail as to what it looks like & it's colours? It is kind of hard to dispute it especially when he wrote an entire book on Japanese planes that he photographed himself personally.

The link is a bunch of people who are speculating at best & trying to think of what it might be I say go with the guy who was there & documented it.

[Krusty]

That link mirrors a long debate that's been going on for years to debunk the shamrock-covered decals, artwork, and myth that has sprung up.

I didn't really read through the text of your scan, but it does say chocolate brown (which those trying to correct the myth usually suggest). In that regard I agree with the author there.

Please consider that just the most recent link I've run across. It's been discussed on a number of message boards and webpages for some time.

As for the author.... Well they get stuff wrong. Even the pilots that flew and fought get things flat-out wrong. I'm not discounting it, I'm just saying I don't trust it as gospel without a lot more information. When did he first put his thoughts down? Was it in 1996? Or was it in 1946? Stuff like that can really change a tale's telling.

Sorry for not looking at the image you posted more clearly. I could have avoided some confusion by reading the text. 

[lyric1]

That link mirrors a long debate that's been going on for years to debunk the shamrock-covered decals, artwork, and myth that has sprung up.

I didn't really read through the text of your scan, but it does say chocolate brown (which those trying to correct the myth usually suggest). In that regard I agree with the author there.

Please consider that just the most recent link I've run across. It's been discussed on a number of message boards and webpages for some time.

As for the author.... Well they get stuff wrong. Even the pilots that flew and fought get things flat-out wrong. I'm not discounting it, I'm just saying I don't trust it as gospel without a lot more information. When did he first put his thoughts down? Was it in 1996? Or was it in 1946? Stuff like that can really change a tale's telling.

Sorry for not looking at the image you posted more clearly. I could have avoided some confusion by reading the text.  

My book was a reprint done in 2004.

This link has some info & you can use. Go to Amazon to look inside the book.





http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=3191156101&searchurl=an%3Djames%2Bp%2Bgallagher%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D80%26y%3D11

[Masherbrum]

It's not worth it Lyric.   Thank you for the info.   

[Krusty]

Karaya? You're not worth it? Because your comment certainly doesn't add anything to the topic, the forum the community as a whole.... surely you're not talking about me or Lyric, who are both openly participating in a free and friendly discussion?


I was replying expressing the problems with creating such a skin even with the 1 photo of the real craft. Aside from the chocolate brown description in the body of text that I overlooked (I said sorry!), the issues with skinning this bird still remain.

[EskimoJoe]

Oh look, another worthless pissing contest with Krusty!  

How original. Love how you lash straight at Masherbrum as if he was talking directly to you or something.

[VonMessa]

 

[DrBone1]

Oh look, another worthless pissing contest with Krusty!  

How original. Love how you lash straight at Masherbrum as if he was talking directly to you or something.

so this makes you any better 

[lyric1]

Any ways all other comments aside I got a couple of links that show the plant in question. Now looking at the leaf of the Katabami & clover I think unless your a botanist it is going to be very hard to tell the two leafs apart.

God who knew we would be discussing plants to confirm what a skin on a aircraft should look like.


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhanamist.sakura.ne.jp%2Fflower%2Friben%2Fkatabami%2Fkatabami.html

http://crwp.mine.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp/~masaruo/mine-flower-en/photo/Others/katabami.html

Katabami.




Clover.



All things being equal with my non botanist eye I say profile & description that I posted should stand as the correct method of skinning that KI-61

[Masherbrum]

I'd use that skin, both skins shown (the 16th one as well) actually.

[Amaazee]

I can't skin any planes that aren't new, well I can but I have the slightest idea of how. I am also still having trouble making my PSD files in BMP.

[DEECONX]

Lol, first thing I thought of was the Starburst Commercial with the Scottish-Koreans, but this is Irish-Japanese! Still a contradiction? I dont know, but I would fly it!