16 yr old teen lost at sea

[2bighorn]

Others may disagree, but having a license and driving a vehicle, unsupervised, is a VERY dangerous responsibility.  One can go pretty dar and find lots of trouble in a car with 2-3 hours of free time.

True, but fatality rate per 100 millions vehicle miles traveled is 1.25, whilst fatality rate (per 100 millions miles) at attempts to solo sailing circumnavigation is about 40.23.

That's ratio of 1:32 in favor of car driving.

[VonMessa]

True, but fatality rate per 100 millions vehicle miles traveled is 1.25, whilst fatality rate (per 100 millions miles) at attempts to solo sailing circumnavigation is about 40.23.

That's ratio of 1:32 in favor of car driving.

That belabors the obvious.  Of course, it is more dangerous to sail.

That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use.  There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive.  You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time.  Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?

In addition, out of the 100's of millions of attempts at circumnavigation by sailing used for this statistic, how many  were 16?

Gotta do a little better than throw raw data at me to make it stick   

[grizz441]

That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use.  There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive.  You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time.  Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?

It's not bunk, in fact, it's probably magnitudes lower than the actual population ratio is.  Where did you find those values bighorn?

The entire car analogy is bunk anyways, as she is going to be driving in addition to the sailing risks.

[2bighorn]

That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use.  There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive.

 
No, it isn't bunk. It's per mile traveled. That's the fairest metric when comparing different modes of travel.

 

You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time.

You can also travel much further in an airplane in a given amount of time. Yet, air travel is not less safe than car travel. In fact, it's much safer.

Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?

No, I couldn't go through trouble finding all the data for 16 years old, so its for all ages combined. But it still gives relatively valid safety comparison for two modes of travel.

In addition, out of the 100's of millions of attempts at circumnavigation by sailing used for this statistic, how many  were 16?

So you (with no data to support your claim) are saying that 16 old sailors are less prone to fatal accidents than adult sailors?

Gotta do a little better than throw raw data at me to make it stick  

Hah, don't you think that 'raw data' is a little better than no data at all? At least I use some data, you're just pulling it out of nothing.  


All I'm saying is, all-you-pro-16-solo-sailing-around-the-globe-people-saying-it-isn't-any-less-dangerous-than-driving-a-car are wrong. Better argument is needed to support your claim (ie data).

Where did you find those values bighorn?

National Highway Safety Administration, World Sailing Speed Record Council, Adventure Stats, various articles found on the web.
Data for solo sailing globe circumnavigation isn't foolproof, but error margin isn't that big either that would considerably change the ratios.

[grizz441]

I'm with ya bighorn.  Nice stats, more effort that I put in that's for sure, hehe.

[Penguin]

Started around 11yrsold  optimist. Then lasers, kinda like a sunfish. Around 16 i crewed in penguins at local regattas. At that age , summertime was working on workboat/crab boat. Curently  just have  a Boston Whaler just to cruz around in and drink beers. Just got a kayak too but wont see me in the bay with that hehe. Sailing is a good hobby growing up  salute  have fun with  it.

I started the same way, same age, in an optimist (3 years), but I'm not sure about the types of boats you're talking about.  I only get a chance to sail when I go to Poland for the summer, and this year I'll be in Puck (pootsk) Poland, sailing on as I've been told, a "Zeta" boat. 

I agree, sailing rocks!

-Penguin

[Tupac]

I started the same way, same age, in an optimist (3 years), but I'm not sure about the types of boats you're talking about.  I only get a chance to sail when I go to Poland for the summer, and this year I'll be in Puck (pootsk) Poland, sailing on as I've been told, a "Zeta" boat. 

I agree, sailing rocks!

-Penguin

Optimist? You mean the floating bathtub?
I've sailed in one of those before, although I would prefer listening to the grass grow, or plucking nose hairs for that matter.

Nah optimists are fun little boats

[Penguin]

I agree with the size description- but for a small boat, it handles itself in waves that are at least taller than the hull!  Try doing that with a three-master!  I learned another important lesson, the lower you keep your head, the more likely you are to keep it.

-Penguin

[Tupac]

I agree with the size description- but for a small boat, it handles itself in waves that are at least taller than the hull!  Try doing that with a three-master!  I learned another important lesson, the lower you keep your head, the more likely you are to keep it.

-Penguin

I've suffered from cessna forehead and sunfish forehead - I wouldn't reccomend either one

[Penguin]

Have you ever tried optimist-throat?  Man, I didn't realize how stiff those hemp ropes are until they were really  taut!  I was doing a turn, and it felt like I got clotheslined by Rubber Band Man.

-Penguin

[68Wooley]

Wayfarer nose is no fun either. Particularaly when said nose belongs to a 12 year old in your charge.

[Delirium]

It is all over the news, the father of the girl had cameras all over him and his family for weeks prior to her trip.

Why? Reality TV... the father signed a deal. That explains his willingness to let her go alone.

[hlbly]

that’s what you did when you made your choice on what friends she could hang out with based on your opinion...
early adult and none.  But i had to grow into the real world at age 12 when my grandma never recovered from a knee surgery. She never fully came out of the anesthesia. It was four years of ups and downs with her until her death in my ninth grade. So that was all of middle school and first year of high school i had to help take care of her with my mom because she pretty much couldn’t do anything on her own anymore. I even moved in with her.
So I know what its like to be a parent without actually having been one. I had to go through a hell of a lot more than any other kid my age did which matured me faster than the rest.

by no means am i saying your a bad father, but what i will say is that your parenting practices doesn’t make you a good one.

Had nothing to do with ethnicity . If I could not meet the parents of my children's  friends . They could not hang out with those kids . No where do I mention ethnicity . Having been the victim of discrimination as a boy , I detest it .

Admirable that you took care of your grandmother , but you are comparing apples and steam locomotives . Children are actively preyed upon in all the places we have mentioned . Online and out of the home . Children hide evidence of planned and ongoing behavior in their rooms . Doubt you had the same considerations ,with an elderly woman who you would have had no right to interfere with anyways .

No what makes me a good or bad parent is the results achieved . If I raise criminal maladjusted burdens to society , or productive stable happy members of society .  I think you represent society's thinking on child rearing these days . Since we have used truancy I will use it to illustrate a point  I will make . Society today will tell me I can't shouldn't use my planned approach to stop my sons truancy . I know this because my neighbor is on the school board and he has told me to expect the school administration to deny me permission to do it . He has also done a straw vote on wether the school board will over rule it , I will win . Now this same society that won't allow me the only remedy that will work , will also take me to criminal court if I fail to make my son go to school .This is a new law in my state in response to the crimes truant children are committing , both violent and property crimes . To me a clear example of society concerned about the results of a failed approach to child rearing , not a concern about the cause of it  .It also says to me we will hold you responsible for things we will deny you the ability to change .The results of the new age approach to child raising has failed to a large degree . It is time to examine the approach and quit  making  criminals out of both victims of it . The parent and the child . No I will stick to my old school approach that works instead of the new age approach that fails .

[Vudak]

All I'm saying is, all-you-pro-16-solo-sailing-around-the-globe-people-saying-it-isn't-any-less-dangerous-than-driving-a-car are wrong. Better argument is needed to support your claim (ie data).

There is a big difference between giving an inexperienced driver the keys to a 1992 Taurus GL and a 1992 Taurus SHO.  I think if we're going to drag in statistics, we'll need them much more detailed than any of us are likely to bother to get (understandably).

My point is that parents routinely either buy their kids, or let their kids buy, high performance sports vehicles, and those kids routinely kill themselves, their passengers, and other motorists with them.  I believe half a dozen kids from my town alone have died in just the past 4-5 years because of this.

I will grant that a solo sailor could endanger the lives of the coast guard, but that's a little different than slamming into an unassuming motorist just driving home.

Again, I'd much rather those parents sent their kids sailing.

[grizz441]

There is a big difference between giving an inexperienced driver the keys to a 1992 Taurus GL and a 1992 Taurus SHO.  I think if we're going to drag in statistics, we'll need them much more detailed than any of us are likely to bother to get (understandably).

My point is that parents routinely either buy their kids, or let their kids buy, high performance sports vehicles, and those kids routinely kill themselves, their passengers, and other motorists with them.  I believe half a dozen kids from my town alone have died in just the past 4-5 years because of this.

I will grant that a solo sailor could endanger the lives of the coast guard, but that's a little different than slamming into an unassuming motorist just driving home.

Again, I'd much rather those parents sent their kids sailing.

It's not an either or situation.  They're going to be driving also...