Author Topic: Putin Says we are better than you  (Read 2740 times)

Offline Wildcat1

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2010, 06:55:57 AM »
Same thing as I said last time, Mig-15 & F-86

If it looks the same does not mean it's a copy.

actually, if im thinking correctly, the U.S. copied the F-86 of of the MiG-15, for the delta wings, bubble canopy, sleek fuselage, etc. they took the MiG-15's design and made improvements, such as hydraulic controls (later on), range-finding gunsight, and the elevators being slanted and closer to the fuselage (mind you i dont know what thats called :lol)
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2010, 01:11:39 PM »
actually, if im thinking correctly, the U.S. copied the F-86 of of the MiG-15, for the delta wings, bubble canopy, sleek fuselage, etc. they took the MiG-15's design and made improvements, such as hydraulic controls (later on), range-finding gunsight, and the elevators being slanted and closer to the fuselage (mind you i dont know what thats called :lol)

I actually though that the 262 gave both sides the idea for the swept wing. The bubble canopy, the gunsight and the fuselage with the flushed ribeting and all came from the P-51 (same company made it). As for the hydraulic controls I don't think Mig-15 ever had it, not 100% sure on it though.
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2010, 01:27:06 PM »
I have no proof that they coppied anything. Just as they have no proof they didn't. You have to take their word on it.

The RPG is essentially a panzerfaust that can be reloaded.

With the Ak-47, the timing seems...interesting at the very least. You must admit that they do bear a family resemblance. It seems it appeared at about the right time for them to have studied and tested captured sturmgewehrs, and then put a modified version into production.
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2010, 01:56:23 PM »
The MiG-15 was not a F86 copy. It was a result of the studies on the Ta183. The Swedish SAAB J29 "Flying Barrel" was also a Ta183 derivative.

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Offline Wildcat1

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2010, 02:35:18 PM »
The MiG-15 was not a F86 copy. It was a result of the studies on the Ta183. The Swedish SAAB J29 "Flying Barrel" was also a Ta183 derivative.

it wasnt a copy because the MiG-15 was produced before the saber, the main reason they made the F-86 was so the USAF could have something to combat the MiG
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2010, 02:39:19 PM »
I have no proof that they coppied anything. Just as they have no proof they didn't. You have to take their word on it.

The RPG is essentially a panzerfaust that can be reloaded.

With the Ak-47, the timing seems...interesting at the very least. You must admit that they do bear a family resemblance. It seems it appeared at about the right time for them to have studied and tested captured sturmgewehrs, and then put a modified version into production.

What your saying makes sense, however it could have just been "the same weapon" designed by two different people independently (like the jet engine).
Note I am not saying that it is not a copy, just viewing all possibilities.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 02:40:51 PM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Nemisis

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2010, 02:43:47 PM »
There is that. Likely we will never KNOW, unless a document saying "We coppied the german sturmgewehr and produced it as the AK-47" suddenly turns up. I have my suspicions, but thats all I will likely have.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2010, 03:25:59 PM »
The AK-47 is not a copy of the StG-44, but a development of an earlier Kalashnikov SMG design and is inspired by many earlier designs. (Most things are.)

Quote
The AK-47 is best described as a hybrid of previous rifle technology innovations: the trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway of the M1 Garand/M1 carbine, the safety mechanism of the John Browning designed Remington Model 8 rifle, and the gas system and layout of the Sturmgewehr 44. Kalashnikov's team had access to all of these weapons and had no need to "reinvent the wheel", though he denied that his design was based on the German Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle. Kalashnikov himself observed: "A lot of [Soviet Army soldiers] ask me how one can become a constructor, and how new weaponry is designed. These are very difficult questions. Each designer seems to have his own paths, his own successes and failures. But one thing is clear: before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good appreciation of everything that already exists in this field. I myself have had many experiences confirming this to be so."

The PRG-7 is a development of the RPG-2 which is basically a slightly improved Panzerfaust 250, a prototype German weapon.

The MiG-15 and F-86 are both products of German science and thus it is not surprising that they look similar. The only thing that was a pure copy on the MiG was its "British" engine.

The Tu-4 is an almost blueprint copy of the B-29. The Soviets were pretty desperate for a long-range bomber after WWII and the advent of atomic weapons. Luckily for them a number of B-29s made emergency landings in Russia in the final months of the war. The Tu-4 was also the basis for the design of the Tu-95, so you could say that this...



... is in part a Boeing product. ;)
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2010, 05:01:07 PM »
So what exactly does Tu-95 have incommon with Tu-4? Besides the part that they both can fly.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline CHAPPY

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2010, 05:03:55 PM »
So what exactly does Tu-95 have incommon with Tu-4? Besides the part that they both can fly.

91 Tu?

Offline MachFly

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2010, 05:10:45 PM »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline BrownBaron

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2010, 06:00:28 PM »
So what exactly does Tu-95 have incommon with Tu-4? Besides the part that they both can fly.

The fuselage of the craft is still rather similar to the B-29/Tu-4.
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2010, 06:15:16 PM »
So what exactly does Tu-95 have incommon with Tu-4? Besides the part that they both can fly.
The fuselage of the craft is still rather similar to the B-29/Tu-4.

Did you mean Tu-95/Tu-4 or B-29/Tu-4?
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline BrownBaron

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #88 on: June 22, 2010, 06:39:53 PM »
The fuselage of the craft is still rather similar to the B-29/Tu-4.


Did you mean Tu-95/Tu-4 or B-29/Tu-4?

I meant that the Tu-95 still shares similar qualities in its design with the Tu-4.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Putin Says we are better than you
« Reply #89 on: June 22, 2010, 07:14:00 PM »
So what exactly does Tu-95 have incommon with Tu-4? Besides the part that they both can fly.

The Tupolev bureau was responsible for retro-engineering the B-29 into the Tu-4. Tupolev pored all that experience and technology into creating the Tu-85 prototype in 1949... Essentially a scaled up Tu-4:



It never entered into production, but in 1951 Tupolev got approval to design a turboprop version designated Tu-95. By adding four 12,000 hp turboprop engines and sweeping back the wings the supersized B-29 copy became the Cold War icon we all know as the Bear.

If you look at them side by side the heritage is unmistakable.

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi