Author Topic: Thanks again Agent360  (Read 5457 times)

Offline Agent360

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2010, 09:28:56 PM »
Falconwing,

Your going to have to do better than first hit google searches on the word. If that is the extent of

your experience with the word then this explains your confusion.

Empiric is an old word that is not used very much in modern literature. It's origin is circa 1600.

Empiric is used to describe knowledge in some way, such as "empiric data" or "empirical evidence"

Why then would there be such a thing as an"empirical victory". This comes from the fact that the

root word empiric was used to describe physicians who practiced medicine from experience only,

not relying on scientific method. They were often wrong and their treatments harmful. They were

then branded as quacks or Charlton's. Therefor, their treatments were of no value and even

counter productive.

The word then found use later circa 1700 to mean an act of no value. Since empiric describes

knowledge it was often used in literature to describe failures involving topics about philosophy and

politics. This is why it has been used in law to describe failures or loss.

Law is based on the concept of right and wrong. So, saying "empirical victory" really referred to

whether or not it was right to win or if the legal fight was moral at all.

In the 20th century the phrase became an idiom to mean a "hollow victory" in the context of right or

wrong. It was further generalized and used in types of discussion not involving law specifically and

simply became used generally to describe any kind of "hollow victory"

One of the english languages adjective suffix's is "al"

So, if you put the suffix "al" on the end of empiric, you get "empirical". This is why IT APPEARS in

the dictionary as an adjective. There is also "empiricism", "empiricist", and "empirically".

Depending on the use, empiric CAN be used as an adjective as well.

The phrase "empiric victory" and "empirical victory" mean exactly the same thing. The use is

proper either way. However, technically, if one uses the word to describe a noun, the literal

adjective form is proper vs using the implied form as an adjective.

Most people think that the proper phrase would be "pyrrhic victory". This type of victory describes

a victory that comes with great or unacceptable losses. Such as loosing all of your soldiers or in

law spending great amounts of money and using up resources.

In law the term empiric is used due to its roots being knowledge, right and wrong. Further, it is in

fact, used to describe a civil legal battle where large amounts of money were spent to win but

without significant or even no return for the win and in criminal law where a lengthy trial resulted in

no serious punishment to the defendant.

A pyrrhic victory is one where you still win but at a cost so great it becomes worthless. You do win

and may keep winning and gaining something of value but all the time you are loosing more than

you win.

An empirical victory is one where you win (with or without great loss of something valuable) but did

not gain anything of value for it. One only gets to say "i was right". The win gained nothing,

accomplished no goal, had no effect positive or negative. It achieved absolutely nothing. But the act

of winning did not result in a great loss of anything to you. This is quite different from a pyrrhic

victory.

Who's your daddy now???

Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2010, 09:42:36 PM »
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc.  Just like you were trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory."  The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were in over your head.

Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started medical school.  So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms.  I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.

Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.

And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly.  "loosing" is a completely different word.... :neener:  The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is English your first language??? :uhoh

BTW I am sure my dad wouldn't sport a marijuana logo as an avatar...so you are off the hook in regards to paternity! :cheers:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 09:47:39 PM by FALCONWING »
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2010, 09:47:57 PM »
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc.  Just like you were trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory."  The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were above your head.

Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.

And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly.  "loosing" is a completely different word.... :neener:  The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is English your first language??? :uhoh

You dropped your badge, officer.



Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2010, 09:50:53 PM »
Falconwing,

Your going to have to do better than first hit google searches on the word. If that is the extent of

your experience with the word then this explains your confusion.

Empiric is an old word that is not used very much in modern literature. It's origin is circa 1600.

Empiric is used to describe knowledge in some way, such as "empiric data" or "empirical evidence"

Why then would there be such a thing as an"empirical victory". This comes from the fact that the

root word empiric was used to describe physicians who practiced medicine from experience only,

not relying on scientific method. They were often wrong and their treatments harmful. They were

then branded as quacks or Charlton's. Therefor, their treatments were of no value and even

counter productive.

The word then found use later circa 1700 to mean an act of no value. Since empiric describes

knowledge it was often used in literature to describe failures involving topics about philosophy and

politics. This is why it has been used in law to describe failures or loss.

Law is based on the concept of right and wrong. So, saying "empirical victory" really referred to

whether or not it was right to win or if the legal fight was moral at all.

In the 20th century the phrase became an idiom to mean a "hollow victory" in the context of right or

wrong. It was further generalized and used in types of discussion not involving law specifically and

simply became used generally to describe any kind of "hollow victory"

One of the english languages adjective suffix's is "al"

So, if you put the suffix "al" on the end of empiric, you get "empirical". This is why IT APPEARS in

the dictionary as an adjective. There is also "empiricism", "empiricist", and "empirically".

Depending on the use, empiric CAN be used as an adjective as well.

The phrase "empiric victory" and "empirical victory" mean exactly the same thing. The use is

proper either way. However, technically, if one uses the word to describe a noun, the literal

adjective form is proper vs using the implied form as an adjective.

Most people think that the proper phrase would be "pyrrhic victory". This type of victory describes

a victory that comes with great or unacceptable losses. Such as loosing all of your soldiers or in

law spending great amounts of money and using up resources.

In law the term empiric is used due to its roots being knowledge, right and wrong. Further, it is in

fact, used to describe a civil legal battle where large amounts of money were spent to win but

without significant or even no return for the win and in criminal law where a lengthy trial resulted in

no serious punishment to the defendant.

A pyrrhic victory is one where you still win but at a cost so great it becomes worthless. You do win

and may keep winning and gaining something of value but all the time you are loosing more than

you win.

An empirical victory is one where you win (with or without great loss of something valuable) but did

not gain anything of value for it. One only gets to say "i was right". The win gained nothing,

accomplished no goal, had no effect positive or negative. It achieved absolutely nothing. But the act

of winning did not result in a great loss of anything to you. This is quite different from a pyrrhic

victory.

Who's your daddy now???


Stop typing "loosing" for "losing" please :devil It really makes it hard to have a grammatical argument with you when you can't conjugate words.


Grizz...one muppet at a time please :noid
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 09:54:42 PM by FALCONWING »
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Offline Agent360

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2010, 11:03:19 PM »
Ummm...once again the correct term is empiric victory....you invented the term empirical...sort of like ebonics etc.  Just like you were

trying to say "phyrrical victory" instead of "phyrric victory."  The fact you ever used the term "phyrric victory" to describe what you

were trying to do with the OP illustrated that you had no grasp of the terms and were in over your head.

Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started

medical school.  So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms.  I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as

Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.

Other then that thanks for repeating everything I already told you but in 3000 words of rambling.

And I hate to bring it up, but this is the second time in as many posts that you have spelled "losing" incorrectly.  "loosing" is a

completely different word.... :neener:  The first time i figured you just mistyped...to avoid what happened with lulu in another post...is

English your first language??? :uhoh

BTW I am sure my dad wouldn't sport a marijuana logo as an avatar...so you are off the hook in regards to paternity! :cheers:

You should spell "pyrrhic" correctly.

I never questioned your education only where you got your information.

Since you are so smart why haven't you bothered to pick a dictionary and actually look up the word "empirical". LOLOL ...an ebonic word. The fact that you don't know that empirical is the adjective for empiric is very embarrassing for you.

Here I will help you:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=empirical

And

Websters unabridged dictionary, second edition, page 594.
em-pir-ic-al, em-pir-ic, a. 1. relying or based solely on experiments or experience; as, the empirical method.
2. relying or based on practical experience without reference to scientific principles; as, an empirical remedy.

Dude!!!!! just pick up the dictionary and read it and you won't look so idiotic.

It's even worse that you are doctor and don't know this since it is a reference to medicine.

I have already explained to you the origin and use of empirical and why there is such a thing as an "empirical victory"

I even explained to you the difference between an "empirical victory" and a "pyrrhic victory".

I did not repeat anything you said. I explained to you why you were wrong.

Now you are trying to say I repeated what you said...ummm are you drunk or something.

I included "pyrrhic" in parenthesis because that term is easy to understand and in "common" use they are used interchangeably because most don't know the difference.

Apparently, even you as an educated person having a medical degree can't understand the word either. Maybe you should stick to pyrrhic and just leave empiric to people who actually understand the word.

Pointing out a simple insignificant word misspelling and my avatar is a sign you are attempting to get out of the central argument by distraction...definitely a sign YOU are in over YOUR head on this one.

BTW, I misspelled "losing" with two S's not two 0's (lossing). I obviously hit the S twice. Your lack of attention to detail is quite obvious. If your going to point out stuff like that you should get it right.

If you are going be an expert here then I suggest you submit some "empirical evidence".

I challenge you to provide any evidence that any of my explanations are wrong.

PS - I was a paramedic for 15 years, was in pre med until kids came along, and worked in my mothers law office as a paralegal for 5 years. I was a flight paramedic at the University of South Alabama (level 1 trauma center and teaching hospital) for 4 of those years and schooled rookie doctors in the art of saving lives. I delt with many idiot doctors like you in the very same way I am dealing with you now....showing you that a book education don't mean jack unless you know how to use it practically.










« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 11:07:02 PM by Agent360 »

Offline mechanic

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2010, 11:11:58 PM »
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you  :cool:
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline kilo2

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2010, 11:20:46 PM »
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you  :cool:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
X.O. Kommando Nowotny
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Offline lyric1

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2010, 11:22:53 PM »
More OZ muscle.

1972 SE E55 340 V8 Valiant Charger.




Offline Agent360

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2010, 11:24:20 PM »
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you  :cool:

heheheheh.

I know. My wife got wind of this due to my conversations with my good friend who is a Dr. of english literature and with my mother who is an attorney. All of them are like....are you serious...why are you even bothering with this childish argument. :headscratch:

LOLOL....i just enjoy an intellectual debate every now and then...im a nerd.
 :neener:

Offline MickDono

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2010, 04:49:44 AM »
im a reel goode speler :D

Offline grizz441

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2010, 07:24:40 AM »
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you  :cool:

One might say they are sporting for an emperic/emperical victory?  :D

Offline mechanic

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2010, 07:50:41 AM »
 :D

No, it's empericalic, you're saying it wrong!
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Slash27

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2010, 08:48:20 AM »
Since you seem to question my education and experience...I worked as a paralegal in the Environmental law field before I started medical school.  So I am familiar with the correct usage of legal terms.  I was also involved in Health Care Law during my tenure as Chief of Medicine at my local hospital.


Got a pic of your car?

Offline FireDrgn

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2010, 03:35:18 PM »
I dropped out of school to work at 16 and right now I'm looking a whole lot smarter than either of you  :cool:



 :D Do you have a picture?
"When the student is ready the teacher will appear."   I am not a teacher.

Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Thanks again Agent360
« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2010, 04:54:34 PM »
I cant waste anymore time trying to educate you.  You seem unable to grasp that the proper term is empiric victory and not empirical victory.   I can't help you....
Pointing out a simple insignificant word misspelling and my avatar is a sign you are attempting to get out of the central argument by distraction...definitely a sign YOU are in over YOUR head on this one.

BTW, I misspelled "losing" with two S's not two 0's (lossing). I obviously hit the S twice. Your lack of attention to detail is quite obvious. If your going to point out stuff like that you should get it right.
But I CAN help you understand that the word you are looking for is "lose" and not "loose."  You seem to say it was a typo...since I am not a great requote dude I will quote you from three separate areas where you repeatedly made this "typo" in my subsequent texts.  I'll highlight the terms in red

If you are going be an expert here then I suggest you submit some "empirical evidence".

I challenge you to provide any evidence that any of my explanations are wrong.

PS - I was a paramedic for 15 years, was in pre med until kids came along, and worked in my mothers law office as a paralegal for 5 years. I was a flight paramedic at the University of South Alabama (level 1 trauma center and teaching hospital) for 4 of those years and schooled rookie doctors in the art of saving lives. I delt with many idiot doctors like you in the very same way I am dealing with you now....showing you that a book education don't mean jack unless you know how to use it practically.

I cant even begin to express the level of respect i have for folks like you.  :eek:  Wow another guy who was premed...awesome. :aok  Thank goodness for those paramedics who can school doctors :rolleyes:  You really can't see yourself can you????? :bolt:











« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 05:32:38 PM by FALCONWING »
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