Icons

[jimson]

Yeah, did AvA. Stopped for the same reason FSO sucked last night.

Yeah, not quite.

The AvA wasn't doing any better before they made no enemy icons standard.

In fact it has gotten quite a few converts because of the setting.

Perhaps it should be confined to the AvA though. That's where no icon fans can make a home.

Anyway like Shifty said, if it's going to stay this way for two weeks why not stop by AvA for some practice?

Tuesday we usually have plenty of folks for a fight. Other nights might be good too, but I usually fly on Tuesdays.

[WWhiskey]

A no Icon arena would be good for those who like the idea to try out! it would also be nice to see there opinion about it after the fact!
it would also probably be more fun if it were easier to see the planes at a distance but on a computer monitor it is really hard to tell much of anything at a distance
the other problem i saw was not being able to tell if a con was going down or had just dipped below the 500 foot mark,  Like I said,, chasing ghost's!

[jimson]

A no Icon arena would be good for those who like the idea to try out! it would also be nice to see there opinion about it after the fact!

AvA is the place. No enemy icons, friendly icons at 2.4K, been this way for a few months now, most people enjoy the change.

Still, I wouldn't recommend it become a standard setting anywhere else.

We enjoy being the gathering place for no icon fans.

[Sloehand]

Some love them, some hate them. Nothing new.
Icons will be the same for all three frames.

Then enjoy those frames.  I won't be there unless I can't find some grass growing or cement hardening somewhere.  This is stupidity taken to the ultimate.  We all want realism, but with a balance of playability and enjoyable entertainment.  This ain't it by such a long shot.

[gyrene81]

I, too, agree with Delirium, both in this and his other post about very short icons favoring the faster plane (i.e., our Bf-109G-2 vs. Hurricane Mk.II).

You and Delirium are both wrong on that account. There is no advantage either way. The faster the plane the easier it is to misjudge and overshoot unless you really know your sight picture, and that takes some time.

People were calling out dots last night that my crappy computer couldn't even see. On the other hand spikes with his super uber gaming rig was not only able to see the dots, but call out spit or 109/190. Something not right with that.

What's not right about it? When the graphics were updated in AH people whined for weeks about not being able to play but few actually took a hike. It was easier to whine than anything else. The crappy computer argument doesn't wash because Chilli (who is no young squeaker) flies in the no enemy icons AvA regularly on a crappy laptop and he does very well against those of us with better systems. According to him, dummying down the graphics a bit made it easier for him. And he's not the only one using a laptop in there either.

A no Icon arena would be good for those who like the idea to try out! it would also be nice to see there opinion about it after the fact!
it would also probably be more fun if it were easier to see the planes at a distance but on a computer monitor it is really hard to tell much of anything at a distance
the other problem i saw was not being able to tell if a con was going down or had just dipped below the 500 foot mark,  Like I said,, chasing ghost's!

Drop by the AvA arena and see for yourself. It is becomes quite easy to spot a plane from 6k out. At 4k you can tell friend from foe due to a difference in object shading. You learn real quick how important situational awareness and communications are and you start flying smarter. Learning wingman tactics doesn't hurt either.




I know it's not easy for anyone used to MA icon settings to be tossed into a limited icon visibility setting without having some way of gettting used to it first, and few will do that willingly for various reasons. Daddog, perhaps it would probably be a little easier to swallow the icon settings if the radar settings were changed to compensate. If 500 ft is no icons at all, maybe bar dar would be an acceptable setting, and maybe making dot dar a bit more relaxed as well so people can at least have a chance to find the action.

[Delirium]

You and Delirium are both wrong on that account. There is no advantage either way. The faster the plane the easier it is to misjudge and overshoot unless you really know your sight picture, and that takes some time.more relaxed as well so people can at least have a chance to find the action.

You're totally and completely incorrect in this regard. Trust me, I scored most of my kills last night with this method.

To be blunt, the only reason you are disagreeing with me is because you like the short icons.

[Shifty]

My post was not intended to start an arguement. I have no say so in the icon settings and was surprised myself last night by the settings. Plus the difference in the radar betwwen FSO and AVA makes a huge difference.  was just offering the idea that since we do have these settings for the next two weeks some guys might want to try the AVA with it's similar settings just to get a little more used to the SA environment nothing more. I can see where the lack of icons makes playing a real PITA for guys with older rigs or those who play on laptops.

<S>

[Viper61]

DD:

  Understand your position and I do remember more than a few threads regarding this over the years and one just recently.  And there is a fair share of the guys that are on both sides on this topic.  So its worth a try in my opinion to try different setting with the ICON's.

  In the end this is a game and its got to be enjoyable by the mass's.  The mass's being at least 80% of the guys.  I think the comments state clearly that it was to much work for a game and the enjoyment suffered a bit.  Also the computer argument and graphics makes a good point as well.  I know I am running on a 6 year old computer now.

  Sloehand said it best 2 threads above.  Very good comment.

  AKP has a good point also that the ICON range should be the same for both sides.  Very good comment.

  Del brings up a good point not to take away from the fact he is a skilled pilot, he basically stated he "gamed the game" and he described exactly how he did it.  To me when this happens then there is a issue.  No offense Del your good and you got 10 kills last night <S> ICONS or not.

  DD would like you to concider making a change to the ICON settings for Frame 02 to 3K each and see how that runs.

  My personal opinion is that the ICON range was just fine before at 6K and the same at any altitude.  And if I had a vote I would like them put back to where they were at.  For what it is worth.

  Its a game and last night wasn't as much fun.  I'm not going to quit or anything.  But it just wasn't as much fun.  

[daddog]

Lots of good comments. Lots of rude and self indulgent comments made by players who are totally ignorant as to what I am looking at in this FSO. More to the point, they probably don't care because it is not fun for them. So be it. I am looking out for the fun of the whole, not just those that quit.

About six months ago we received some new tools from HTC. New icons ranges and tower only radar. Since that time they have hardly been used. My decision to go with the shorter icon range for enemy and the no icon range below 500 feet has nothing to do with if I like it or if it would be more 'fun' for the players. I am looking at the 'survivability' of the players to see if having a shorter enemy icon range made a difference. That is if a shorter enemy icon range = a higher % of players that land. Over the past month when I first decided to do this I have looked at many FSO's and FSO frames. The percents this year in a frame range from only 21% landing to as high as 64% landing. Last Friday we had about 43% land. By in large 40% to 45% landing is pretty much the average for an FSO frame. I was wondering if the shorter icon range would increase the percent that land, but it looks like it will not make a difference.

This is stupidity taken to the ultimate.

Oh no, I have done things much more stupid than this.

Having said that I fully understand that just 'surviving' an FSO frame does not make it fun. There are a lot of other factors involved. I get that, and look a those too.

For those of you that don't enjoy it, but stick it out I apologize and I appreciate your efforts to help us improve FSO.

For those that quit. Adios!   

[RSLQK186]

Not currently in game........
But glad to see that FSO is now popular enough to withstand growing pains of such as this without the loss of major squads. They should explore any aspect as long as it is across the board.
This will weather out as all things have and a happy medium will prevail.
And for the record: Icons could include skill level at 6K and I would still be hard pressed to get a kill in my beloved FSO.

[gyrene81]

You're totally and completely incorrect in this regard. Trust me, I scored most of my kills last night with this method.

To be blunt, the only reason you are disagreeing with me is because you like the short icons.

To be extremely blunt Delirium once again you're talking through your hindside again. Read what I replied to again since it went over your head the first time. Your kills had nothing to do with the speed of the planes and that is the part you were and are totally wrong about. Those kills had everything to do with you using a tactic the people were not prepared to defend against and a lack of SA on their parts. Maybe if you had more experience in a no icons environment you wouldn't have said such a silly thing in the first place.

[Spikes]

To be extremely blunt Delirium once again you're talking through your hindside again. Read what I replied to again since it went over your head the first time. Your kills had nothing to do with the speed of the planes and that is the part you were and are totally wrong about. Those kills had everything to do with you using a tactic the people were not prepared to defend against and a lack of SA on their parts. Maybe if you had more experience in a no icons environment you wouldn't have said such a silly thing in the first place.

Lol.

[ImADot]

So, I have read all about how most players hate the icon ranges used in this frame.  For me, it made it more interesting.  It forces us to actually read the CiC's orders, understand where other friendly units are supposed to be, and actually communicate with each other.

If you see some dots, are they where a friendly unit is likely to be?  Are there more names on range radio than there were a minute ago?  You should see a friendly icon before that dot gets big enough to make out the plane itself.  If none of these things happen, chances are it may be a bandit.

If I wanted to fly with full 6k icons and not have to think or use squad tactics or communication, I'd stay in the MA.  If anyone thinks it's too much work to fly the FSO, they are welcome to stay in the MA.

[WWhiskey]

To be extremely blunt Delirium once again you're talking through your hindside again. Read what I replied to again since it went over your head the first time. Your kills had nothing to do with the speed of the planes and that is the part you were and are totally wrong about. Those kills had everything to do with you using a tactic the people were not prepared to defend against and a lack of SA on their parts. Maybe if you had more experience in a no icons environment you wouldn't have said such a silly thing in the first place.

said the guy who wasn't there to one of the two who got ten kills with the new settings!
oh wait i forgot,,, you know everything about everything!!!   my bad!  carry on!

[captain1ma]

the icon ranges work for some people and not for others. im with imadot on this. it forces you to work a bit harders. that much more of a challenge. AVA started no enemy icons on a request. it was put into use during a midway setup but you knew if it was a zeke(which stood out like a sore thumb) it was a bad guy. with all the different skins available, its a bit more tricky in the FSO, but can be managed. good communications and SA and the assumption that a closing dot is a bad guy.

skins do make a difference if you're shot up. you can hide below 500 and probably wont get noticed. with 6k icons, you're as good as dead meat with the guy that has that need to get score no matter what.

as a AVA regular, no enemy icons is managable. finding a good friendly setting is a bit more tricky.  

my only suggestion to daddog is to go to 2.4k for friendly.