Force feedback is causing massive drop in FPS! (this isn't a troll)

[hlbly]

How long has it been since microsoft supported the sidewinder ffb ?

[bustr]

what happens if you enbale combat trim during this testing? If you get a moment factor that in.

[Kazaa]

How long has it been since microsoft supported the sidewinder ffb ?

Works with windows 7 just fine, in other games that is.

[Kazaa]

Is there a chance that anyone from HTC could let me know if these bugs are going to be looked at before next patch release? I can't do a table top review of the MSFFB2 until that happens.

[Kazaa]

 

[gyrene81]

Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.


And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.

[Kazaa]

lol

[Tigger29]

lol

lol what?  I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).

[Kazaa]

Didn't Pyro buy an MS FFB2 for testing? that's what I was told anyway.

[Kazaa]

lol what?  I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).

Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.


And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.

I've tested both of my MSFFB2's in other games that support FFB. It works perfectly. I have no FPS drop and full vibration effects throughout the whole range of motion.

Even though the MSFFB2 isn't in production anymore it's still the best FFB stick around and many people still use their's today.

[pervert]

lol what?  I suffer no FR loss with force feedback enabled on my system... but I use a G940... but still.. this tells me it's not an AH problem (or mine would do it too).

So you have a logitech stick and the force feedback works on that and your reasoning is that because your stick works thats the only thing that matters and it is therefore not an Aces High bug?  If you have nothing more constructive to contribute then don't reply its not a 'my logitech stick isn't working thread'...is it? 

He loled because of

Kaz, it's possible that if no one else is reporting said issue with other joysticks, the problem is the model of joystick you're using...which means it's not an AH bug.


And I don't see anyone else reporting an issue like that anywhere in the forums.

When 715 and myself had reported the same problems in a 2 page thread ie he didn't bother reading the thread before posting just like you...
 

[Tigger29]

All I am saying is that if it were a FF issue, then everyone with FF sticks would be having this issue, at least with my understanding.  Now you're right that the problem possibly might be in how AH communicates the FF with the MSFFB2 stick, but the fact remains that the MSFFB2 stick *IS* indeed obsolete, regardless of how great it is and how popular it is.

I would hope that if it is a known issue with the AH staff, then likely they'll have it fixed next patch... but even if they choose not to fix it (*IF* it is an AH bug in the first place) I can't really blame them, considering the stick isn't even made anymore.

I can also tell you the being rude to other people and ridiculing HT and their methods (and I quote "The last patch was a joke, I found so many bugs." and "lol" at the possibility that this might NOT be an AH bug) is just going to make them that much LESS INCLINED to help you with your problems... ESPECIALLY using an obsolete piece of hardware.

By the way I used to have one of those sticks awhile back and the thing was a absolute joke.. but to each their own.

[Kazaa]

LOL

The last patch did have a lot of bugs...

Doesn't AH2 support any stick which shows up in windows?

[Ghastly]

LOL

The last patch did have a lot of bugs...

Doesn't AH2 support any stick which shows up in windows?

Yes, as a controller.  FF is another animal altogether.  Other's have posted more details than I possess in the past, but there are at least 2 API's (completely separate from the DirectX API's used for controllers) that control FF on the various sticks.  FWIW, IIRC the MS sticks were known for causing a significant amount of processor utilization, which adversely affected many games of the era - I know mine did.

Please don't get the idea that I'm saying that you are in anyway wrong to bring up the issues, or that you should "simply live with" the problems.   Just that FF is a very different situation than general support of a DirectX controller.

Have you done any performance monitoring with and without to see what the processor utilization is in each scenario?   If you're maxing processor without FF, then I would not be surprised to see a frame rate hit with.  The MS API is IIRC something like a softmodem - all the effects are generated by high priority (or real time?) threads that use the processor to generate all the effects.  This was a big disappointment for me when I replaced my failing Logitech Wingman Force stick with an MSFF2, because the impact was VERY noticable.

<S>

[gyrene81]

When 715 and myself had reported the same problems in a 2 page thread ie he didn't bother reading the thread before posting just like you...

Oh geez, here we go (forum snob mode engaged). First and foremost Pervert, if the stick in question and/or the issue were as common with the players in AH as you and Kazaa seem to believe, there would be a lot more people posting on it right now, i.e. more than just Kazaa. I did a search before my initial response, and the last report of an issue with the Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro FFB was 2006 v2.08. Your 2 page post didn't show up.

If you do an idiotweb search on the stick, one of the first articles that pops up is an old Microsoft support article regarding problems with the non-USB version of the stick and certain sound cards/game ports in Win2000, XP and Vista. More granular searches regarding the USB version of the stick shows a mulitude of various incompatibilities being reported across the idiotweb, most especially with Windows 7. So once again we come down to "it's not my computer".



So now let's get down to some of the obvious...

Didn't Pyro buy an MS FFB2 for testing? that's what I was told anyway.

Even if Pyro did buy one of those sticks for testing, don't you find it a bit strange that neither he nor any other HTC staff member has even acknowledged this discussion in the 2 weeks since it was orginally posted? There is also the fact that whatever computer Pyro hooked the stick up to, it's not going to have the same internal hardware as Kazaa's which can and will make a difference. Now let's look at Kazaa's dxdiag...
Available OS Memory: 6136MB RAM
Page File: 2548MB used, 9719MB available

If that is the size of Kazaa's paging file before starting AH and whatever else he has running in the background while playing, there are way too many processes running. With 6GB of RAM on a fresh boot running as lean as possible, your paging file should be around ~1.6GB with AH running. Working on the assumption that you disabled all of the processes recommended in this post:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.0.html
You still have a memory utilization issue with that big of a swap file running.

Not knowing exactly which stick you have, I can't do more granular searches on the idiotweb but I did find something interesting:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/Windows-7/en-us/Browse.aspx?type=Hardware&category=Mice%2c%20Keyboards%20%26%20Input%20Devices&subcategory=Game%20Controllers&compat=incompat&os=64-bit

It is possible that the information is incorrect but it does raise more questions in my mind.

And this little oddity from your dxdiag report has me puzzled since it is a compatibility layer of DirectX although there may not be any correlation to the issue at hand:

D3D9 Overlay: Not Supported
DXVA-HD: Not Supported

Kazaa, would it be possible for you to post the exact model number of that joystick? I'll do some more digging as time permits.