Rudder Pedals

[VonMessa]

Remind me to never fly in a real plane with any of you cross-pressers!

 

[Tigger29]

In this situation I agree with grizz, think of it as steering a bike except doing it with your feet.


Semp

Yes, but here is where it gets complicated.. on a bike at higher speeds, it will turn the OPPOSITE way you turn the handlebars.  In other words, push forward on the right handle and the bike leans right and yaws right, but technically the bars are turned slightly to the left!  This is also true (and especially important to know) on motorcycles as well.

Next time you're on one, pay attention.

My opinion on rudder pedals:  leave them like they SHOULD be.  A big part of what I like about cartoon flying is the realism of the controls.  In real life, pushing your right foot forward on the pedals (and your left foot traveling back toward your body) will push the nose to the right.

[guncrasher]

Tried it in my bicycle it didn't do what you said.  I pushed the right handlebar pulled in the left bike went left. Which how I have my rudders set up (I reversed the axis) which made more sense to me than push right foot plane turns right. which is how grizz has his, I believe.  this is the same as how people hve sticks set up, push forward nose goes up, or it goes down, depends in your preference and what makes sense to each one of us.  I will never larn how to fly a plane so learning to fly in ah the "right way" is well..


Semp

[Ghastly]

Tried it in my bicycle it didn't do what you said.  I pushed the right handlebar pulled in the left bike went left. Which how I have my rudders set up (I reversed the axis) which made more sense to me than push right foot plane turns right. which is how grizz has his, I believe.  this is the same as how people hve sticks set up, push forward nose goes up, or it goes down, depends in your preference and what makes sense to each one of us.  I will never larn how to fly a plane so learning to fly in ah the "right way" is well..


Semp

Semp, it depends upon 2 factors (perhaps more, but 2 that I'm sure of) - how much weight the wheels have, and how fast they are turning.  You remember gyroscopic precession from Grade School science?   That's effectively what happens.  

And I never experienced it on a bicycle that I've noticed either - but I don't ride bicycles at high speed.  That's what the motorcycle is for! {grin}

Anyway, it's CRUCIAL that a beginning motorcyclist learn this, because the wheels are much heavier and turning much faster. Up to a certain point, the motorcycle remains essentially upright when turning, and it follows the wheel,  and "goes where the handle bars point" - in other words, exactly like how you learned to turn a bicycle. But beyond a certain speed, when you push a handlebar,while the front wheel turns a little bit the bike reacts by leaning "into the turn" by a far greater amount, and that's the direction it turns.  If you are still thinking bicycle, and are pushing right to go left, you react by pushing more, it leans more, and goes harder the opposite direction you intend....  and this may just be the last thing you ever do if you are discovering this while being overconfident.

My very first experience with this was going too fast into a turn going under an overpass.  It's been a few decades, but some memories get burned in pretty deep.

The second problem that the beginning motorcyclist learns - in the worst case scenario, WHILE he's just discovering gyroscopic precession as it applies to a motorcycle - is that on a motorcycle, you can turn, and you can brake, but you can't turn and brake simultaneously worth a damn.

And now we're way off topic, but I had to add my 2 centavos {grin}

<S>

[morfiend]

 I never thought to use Grizz's approach but years ago when I first got pedals I had a real problem using them.

 When looking back and wanting to break right I would always give the opposite rudder input for some reason.

 This took along time for me to over come but now I dont even have to think about rudder input as it's become instinctive,this is a result of many hours of flying around and really working the ruder pedals to see what they can do.

 As for the bike thing,it's called counter steering,watch a flat track race or ice race and you'll see it taken to the extreme.You push the right bar and it causes the tire to roll to it's inside and thus you bank into a left hand turn,you might be hard pressed to see this on a bicycle but the same principle applies.

  Back to the rudders,some "opposite" rudder in a turn can help keep you nose level or above the horizon.

   

[grizz441]

I never thought to use Grizz's approach but years ago when I first got pedals I had a real problem using them.

I cannot take credit for it.  I was talking to SHawk a while back on vox about getting pedals and he offered up that information to me as an option based off what felt most natural.  That's how his are set up as well.

[CrAcKeR]

Mine are set up like Grizzs too. I thought of like steering a car.

[LLv34_Snefens]

It's just a question of habit. Just like some have their gun go up when moving the mouse down in FPS'ers (I do), while others have it mouse up -> gun up.

When I got my rudder pedals AH didn't support reversal of axes and I requested this to be put in, as like some in here, I thought it to be more intuitive to have it set up like Grizz do. But since I was told how it worked in real planes, I just learned it the "correct" way and have used it like that since.

[FireDrgn]

Semp, it depends upon 2 factors (perhaps more, but 2 that I'm sure of) - how much weight the wheels have, and how fast they are turning.  You remember gyroscopic precession from Grade School science?   That's effectively what happens.  

And I never experienced it on a bicycle that I've noticed either - but I don't ride bicycles at high speed.  That's what the motorcycle is for! {grin}

Anyway, it's CRUCIAL that a beginning motorcyclist learn this, because the wheels are much heavier and turning much faster. Up to a certain point, the motorcycle remains essentially upright when turning, and it follows the wheel,  and "goes where the handle bars point" - in other words, exactly like how you learned to turn a bicycle. But beyond a certain speed, when you push a handlebar,while the front wheel turns a little bit the bike reacts by leaning "into the turn" by a far greater amount, and that's the direction it turns.  If you are still thinking bicycle, and are pushing right to go left, you react by pushing more, it leans more, and goes harder the opposite direction you intend....  and this may just be the last thing you ever do if you are discovering this while being overconfident.

My very first experience with this was going too fast into a turn going under an overpass.  It's been a few decades, but some memories get burned in pretty deep.

The second problem that the beginning motorcyclist learns - in the worst case scenario, WHILE he's just discovering gyroscopic precession as it applies to a motorcycle - is that on a motorcycle, you can turn, and you can brake, but you can't turn and brake simultaneously worth a damn.

And now we're way off topic, but I had to add my 2 centavos {grin}

<S>

YEP  .. the wheels make two big gyroscopes.  If i relember right . a gyroscope moves 90 degrees to the force applied.  that's how when your slow  left is left and right is right  but when the gyroscopes get spinning left is right and right is left.  Becomes natural after a while so u don't even notice..

<S>

[jocrp6]

dirt-trackers turn right to go left!  he,he.  I was also dyslexic when i got pedals for about a month, (push right to yaw left)  you get over that, and after a few months,  you will start dancing away with not even thinking bout it!
As far as leaning on them during normal flight!  (don't ride the clutch) keep that in mind!  lol
                                                                                                                Misfire out,

[BERN1]

aww crap now Im confussed
think now i will change all the controls to backward input....hmmm..cant hurt....much