Author Topic: Survivability  (Read 640 times)

Offline Muzzy

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Survivability
« on: August 22, 2010, 07:19:52 PM »
"Ah! the searing kiss of hot lead; how I missed you!" Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, The Simpsons

We all know that getting shot down is simply a fact of virtual life in AH.  It's no fun, but it happens....a lot...and you just have to get used to it.  But I was wondering....just how cautiously do people fly in this game?  Are you committed to getting a kill to the point of ignoring check six calls (even if they're really loud)?  Do you charge into a pile of red icons without backup? Or can you fly into a furball with no guns, zip around for a few minutes and escape unscathed?  Would you rather get that last extra kill, or land safely?  

I'm asking because of the exercise that was mentioned in one of the other thread that required you to empty your guns and fly through a furball to change some of your habits.  I attempted to fly a bit more defensively in the MA, but the problem with that is that there are so many situations that come up where the only way to do this is to get the heck out of Dodge (or A23 or P145), and that's only if you get the chance. I guess the thing is that flying defensively has a bit of timidity associated with it.  If you really wanted to stay out of everyone else's gun range, the logical thing to do is exit the battlefield. Also, there are situations in the MA, such as contesting a base cap, where you have to up at a disadvantage if only to buy time for your country to mount a defense.  So how can you improve your defensive skills while still being aggressive?  Which quality, survivability or aggressiveness, do you think is more important?

-Muzzy

« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 07:29:04 PM by Muzzy »


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline fuzeman

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 07:32:51 PM »
I think it really depends on the person and the situation. Some hate to get a death and fly accordingly. Others pursue and follow you through thick and thin to kill you.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline SPKmes

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2010, 08:04:08 PM »
I do all of the above...there is no rhyme or reason to what I do...I do like to improve my stats but not to the point I don't get my hands dirty...I even go in to areas without sound to try and improve my visual SA...I die lots...but I have improved more by getting in and learning to survive.....Gunnery is still a shocker though.

The only way is, do it, do it, and do it some more.... to be head long into a furball you need to be more aggressive...the only real defensive side of a furball is ensuring you are keeping an eye on the guys up high, who think they are furballing but really they are there to collect the work of the guys mixing it up....
Constant scanning of the green guys and red ...Many times I will run out of guns but not leave due to there being a more red to green ratio..with this I will let the friendlies know and just try to slow one or two of them down for my guys to clean up....If I'm lucky enough some will hit the deck...When the ratio is more in favour of my friendlies I will try and egress...if I'm still up that is.

Most of what it comes down to is how you feel about score...As I have said I like to improve my score but more aspects of it rather than overall no.1 spot in the rankings...sure it would be nice but I first need to work on my gunnery% or my sortie to kill% or so on and so on.....

Play the game as you enjoy is all that counts....within this game there are people who will share the same enjoyment as you...

Please remember though..I die lots  so take what I say as you will

oh yeah and to answer your question.....IMO you need defensiveness and aggressiveness for survivability...too much of an open ended question to have a open and shut answer

damn it somebody stop me...I..I...I'm rambling on and on

sorry
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 08:35:21 PM by SPKmes »

Offline Blooz

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 08:40:36 PM »
It's like boxing.

When you see an opening attack. When the enemy attacks defend.

Eric Hartmann got it down to four steps.
http://www.savagesquadron.com/dicta.htm
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2010, 09:27:45 PM »
I think valuable lessons can be learned from all the styles you describe.  Sitting on the perch and picking people off is good because it can be done in relative safety, it can teach some important skills like controlling speed and rate of closure, and is important in that it can grant a measure of success early on and stave off frustration which is important.  Ultimately it's equally important and some point to get off that perch and learn how to handle a fight from the bottom up, so that you can.  Here you learn how to avoid shots, set up reversals, and low speed handling of your aircraft.  Sometimes it's also fun to just accept any fight that comes your way no matter the odds, learn to fight against two, or three people. 

You learn not by doing what is comfortable, but by doing what is uncomfortable.  AH is very much a learn by doing environment, sometimes you just have to take a deep breadth and jump in.  The key (especially early on) is to temper those new experiences with things that are more comfortable, learning can hurt and be frustrating and that has to be balanced with success along the way.

Ultimately how you fly is no ones choice but your own but knowing how to handle different situations if you have to is important. 

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Offline Muzzy

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2010, 10:30:08 PM »
Interestingly enough, I've sort of come into AH with the exact opposite of what you describe.  I'm most comfortable zipping around through a swarm of planes at low level, turning inside a Spit and pinging them until they straighten out or try to climb, or catching a P-38 at the top of a zoom climb and, well...you get the picture.  I'm not at all comfortable with sitting up high and circling like a vulture before swooping in to pick off an unsuspecting target, and zipping away before they know what hit them.

Sounds like fun, though.  :devil 

But I think Soulyss is right about flying outside your comfort zone.  This game is so mult-layered that you have to get comfortable with different styles of combat, and really, all three approaches (BnZ, TnB and Energy) take different skill sets.  They even require different planes in a lot of cases.

A couple of things I've learned from looking at my own survivability statistics:

1. Fly less.  I usually get most of my kills within the first hour of play.  After that I think I'm getting so frazzled or frustrated that I'm not flying at my best.  When that happens it's probably better to go do something else.

2. Fly smarter. Look around the situation *before* you move in.  Assess, and decide if, when and where to strike.

3. Know when to get out.  Too often I get dropped because I stayed in a fight too long.  If you're thinking now would be a good time to land, it probably is.

4. If defending a base cap against superior numbers, your job is to delay the enemy as long as possible, until help arrives.  In some cases, that means getting shot down over and over again.  If by offering yourself up you are keeping them from securing the airspace directly over the field and lighting up the vulch, then so be it.  *Getting* vulched, however, serves no purpose.

5. Don't fly angry.  You just end up doing something stupid.

-Muzzy



CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline Big Rat

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 10:40:00 PM »
Muzzy you'll go far in this game by sticking to your rules there.  I try and preach rules 2 and 3 quite a bit to students. 

 :salute
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Offline bozon

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 03:34:43 AM »
"Defensive" flying, apart from simply running away, is 90% situational awareness. You maneuver your plane so none of the bandits has a good shot at you or possibility of riding your 6. How to do it is hard to describe because every situation needs a different response and more than one option is normally available. In a furball this means that you concentrate on not becoming a target and only if your SA signals "clear" you look for an attack opportunity.

An often misinterpreted aspect of defensive flying is disengagement. This is not timid flying, but the exact opposite - you press hard the attack being very aggressive and when you realize you will not be able to get the kill, use you plane superior speed/climb to get away. Not BnZ, you actually turn with your opponent for a short while. P51s, 190D and 109G14/K ar excellent at this. The ability to escape allows you to risk a difficult situation, so instead of cherry picking because you cannot turn with spits, you play agressive, try a few moves with them and only then disengage if you did not get the kill. A plane like the 109K allows you to dump a lot of E in an attack attempt, knowing that you can get it back quickly if you need to go on defense and get away.
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Offline Dawger

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2010, 08:02:04 AM »
Don't use the exercise of flying with empty guns as a way to learn to avoid the fight.

It is meant to teach you to fight with the airplane and not with the guns. You can be extremely aggressive without guns. If you go into a furball there are certain factors that influence your survivability.

The biggest factor is sheer numbers. Speed is the next big factor.

Use the empty guns exercise against a dueling partner who has ammo and then use it in arena situations. Compare the two experiences.

Offline Rebel

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Re: Survivability
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 09:34:39 AM »
There's a little voice in the back of your head.   I call him Hal.

He says stuff like

"This is a bad idea, Dave."

"Don't do that, Dave."

"Ya done f***ed up, Dave."

"Time to go, Dave." 

"You know this is a setup, don't you Dave?"

Listen to Hal.
"You rebel scum"