Author Topic: Early war set-up  (Read 7391 times)

Offline Krusty

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2010, 10:54:50 PM »
While in the BOB setup the 110C can out-run the Hurr1 at a whim, a great deal of this is diving and zoom-climbing. The Hurr1 (if flown gently) can be competitive in climbs but overall the 110C outclasses it. The Hurr2C is almost 20mph faster, hugs the speed curve of the 110C much more closely (preventing the 110C from escaping the 4x hispanos) and can dive and zoom climb with the 110 til kingdom come.

Naturally not every engagement will be so cut and dried, so clinically described. However the hurr2c doesn't leave the 110C the last refuge it had against the Mk.I: that ability to dive, zoom, or just run away.

And that's not a "wrong" thing either... it just has to be heavily weighed in regards to how you want the scenario to play out.


P.S. Ooooh, I wish we had a 109E-7/trop, maybe a E-7/z!

Offline Nemisis

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2010, 07:45:45 PM »
It seems that Stroke's solution of having mostly Hurricane Mk I's with some IIC's mixed in is a good idea. Perhaps have each group rotate through the IIC so we don't have people in planes that aren't even that much faster than a Ju-88, armed with the equievelant of 2 .50's.


Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems the Mossie has a significant preformance advantage over the beaufighter its substituting for. I'm wondring if there is any way we can reduce the impact this will have on the scenario, as the 109F (the fastest axis plane in the scenario)  will have a hard time catching it on the deck, and it is a much better diver than the 109.
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2010, 08:19:33 PM »
Nemisis.. do you actually read anything anyone posts?

The mossie was in the original writeup I did (back in 2008) as a substitute for the Beaufighter.  It is out of the OOB at this time.  IF we get the Beaufighter before the event runs, we will look at adding it.

We are merging Nefari's "Fire over Malta" with a new scenario based around the Pedestal Convoy of August 1942... a 3 day battle coincidently.

There were no 190As involved in the fighting in July and August 1942 over Malta and Sicily.

The planes we are looking at substitutes for are the Fairy Fulmer, the Wellington and the Sea Hurricane (with and without cannons).  The Axis are good to go with their planeset, although some C79s and HE111s would be a nice addition if they show up.

I am curious if people would consider flying the Hurricane IIC from carriers with the difficulty in landing without a tail hook.

As always thanks for the interest.

Cheers
Fencer
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2010, 09:59:01 PM »
Nemisis.. do you actually read anything anyone posts?


I'm kinda thinking it might be time for Nem to design one.  And no I think he's missing what's been posted :)
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2010, 10:35:57 PM »
You mention "A 3 day battle, coincidentally" -- does that mean this is only 3 frames rather than traditional 4?

Offline StokesAk

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2010, 10:39:25 PM »
You mention "A 3 day battle, coincidentally" -- does that mean this is only 3 frames rather than traditional 4?

I think this part of the battle lasted 3 days, still four frames I would presume. Correct me if im wrong.
Strokes

Offline Nemisis

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2010, 12:18:13 AM »
Sorry about that, I guess I skipped over the mossie part, because I remember the rest.
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2010, 09:50:30 AM »
205s were in "Fire over Malta" and will not be in this scenario as you pointed out, they were not deployed.

202s were used in FOM, No 205s were used.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Fencer51

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2010, 10:44:06 AM »
202s were used in FOM, No 205s were used.

Ah my fault, I had assumed Brooke put them in because they were in the design.. I guess he was just throwing Italians at the OOB.  :)
Fencer
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2010, 03:00:01 PM »
Where will the Axis precisely be based out of BTW?  I'm trying to dig up 190 info for the theatre but it's sketchy.  For now I'd err on the side of not having 190s because they may not of been in the warm mediteranian that soon, the early '42 models were known for having the engine too close to the cockpit, making temperatures in the cokcpit, over Germany, reach a cozy 130 degrees on average.  The problem wasn't corrected on the production lines and by an issued field mod order to crews until about mid '42 and the time of our scenario... so it's possible because there were some 190s in sicily I think at the time, but do you really want a bunch of naked 190 drivers half-hanging out of their cockpit in the skies this scenario?  Also I think I ran across something that said there were some c.202s involved with the Malta region at the time, I'll need to dig up it's citation.

It seems that Stroke's solution of having mostly Hurricane Mk I's with some IIC's mixed in is a good idea. Perhaps have each group rotate through the IIC so we don't have people in planes that aren't even that much faster than a Ju-88, armed with the equievelant of 2 .50's.


Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems the Mossie has a significant preformance advantage over the beaufighter its substituting for. I'm wondring if there is any way we can reduce the impact this will have on the scenario, as the 109F (the fastest axis plane in the scenario)  will have a hard time catching it on the deck, and it is a much better diver than the 109.

I'll agree, that's a good idea.  At the very most for the IIc, for every four Hurri dirvers, there is one IIc to be rotated amongst those drivers so that each pilot gets the oportunity to fly it for one frame, and only one frame.  It's probabley not historicaly accurate, and maybe a little imbalanced, but it could be very possible if we allow a similar roation of a single G-2 amongst every four 109F drivers.

Another alternative if we want to avoid any confusion or conflict (but will seem a bit odd if this scenario is one where the next frame is determined by the outcome of the previous frame), for frame 4 we switchout all the Hurri Is and 109Fs for IIcs and G-2s.... maybe switchout some or all of the Stukas with 190A-5s.

Just an idea, I'd personaly rather see a solid aircraft lineup maintained through all four frames.  Newer, faster, badder toys are always cool, but I think everyone might have more fun across the board if we aim for using only the low-end aircraft rather than the high.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 03:07:33 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2010, 03:47:29 PM »

There were no 190As involved in the fighting in July and August 1942 over Malta and Sicily.

As always thanks for the interest.

Cheers

Babalonian, thanks for the interest and the drive to do some digging into the records.  We have a full OOB at this time.  There were definately 202s involved and they will be present.

If you are interested in the battles around Malta, I suggest you locate a copy of "Malta: The Spitfire Year 1942" by Christopher Shores - ISBN-10: 094881716X at 704 pages it is chocked full of good reading and useful data.

Cheers
Fencer
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2010, 06:28:15 PM »
I'm not sure on this, but that MAY have been a typo. I have the feeling that he meant the C205, but I may be wrong.
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Offline StokesAk

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2010, 07:01:59 PM »
Instead of throwing in 2c's with I's in the same unit but different people. Give them a 6 man squadron.
Strokes

Offline StokesAk

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2010, 07:42:59 PM »
This is extremely stupid, F4U-1 didn't serve in Malta did it? :pray
Strokes

Offline Krusty

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Re: Early war set-up
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2010, 11:51:49 PM »
Nem: C205 is a 1943 plane. This is a 1942 setup. He said 202, he meant 202.

Stokes, No. What WAS was the F4F4, the Wildcat, aka the "Martlet" in RAF service. Closest you will get but still quite capable, compared to the planeset in question.