Microsoft FF2 Repair

[Bravo80]

Hello all, I've had a Microsoft Force Feedback 2 stick for years.  I've tried others, but like the feel of my old Sidewinder.  I'm on my second one.  Unfortunately it has become worn from usage.  The centering function is wearing out.  Microsoft no longer supports the stick because it is no longer being manufactured.  Is anyone aware of a repair service for this stick.  Thanks.

[nrshida]

Can you be a lot more specific regarding the symptoms. Fastest way to suggest a solution is to diagnose precisely the problem.

Do you mean the stick is a lot more sloppy than it was around the centre? Under what circumstances does this happen? Did the change happen suddenly or has slowly gotten that way? Do you still own the first Sidewinder too?

Regards, nrshida.

[Bravo80]

Prior to this weekend, while in flight, the stick would go back to center very stiffly.  It felt like something got loose in a hard turn, now there is a looseness feel while at center position and it does not go back to center as stiffly.

[nrshida]

There's a gearing system between the stick base and the electric motors that provide the FF & centring functionality. Based on what you've said, it could be a mechanical failure in one of those sets of components (two separate channels, basically).

If you're reasonably handy or can find someone reasonably handy, I'd suggest removing the bottom cover and the main circuit board, and gently moving the stick around. Anything amiss should be easily spotted. Especially look for little broken pieces (might be stuck to the grease too!) or something which has become displaced. If you have your other Sidewinder around then there's your supply of spare parts.

The older Sidewinder I have is very easy to take apart (compared with some modern products). Be aware that there may be one or more screws under the little black cylindrical rubber feet. They have a sticky back and can be pried off carefully and reused later. If the lower case doesn't easily separate then you missed one. On mine all the screws were the same length (thus simplifying reassembly). The circuit board should have unique connectors for each wiring bundle. Be extremely careful not to damage the rectangular black panel on the top side of the circuit board, the bit that sits directly under the stick itself.

If you do find something and don't know how to proceed, post some photos and I will try to help you as best I can.

Good luck!

[Bravo80]

Thank you, I will attempt to do what you said.

[nrshida]

If you can wait a few days Bravo, I'm expecting a Sidewinder FF2 through the post any day now. I'd be happy to make a step by step disassembly / reassembly guide for you, with pictures. If it would help you buddy. I've got to tear it down anyway.

[715]

I suspect this isn't relevant but just in case...  Did the problem suddenly show up in flight or did you notice the change after the last AH patch?  Previous versions had a bug with MSFF initialization so that all forces were set to maximum independent of what you had the set in the AH menu.  You had to disable FF then re-enable it to get your chosen settings.  If you didn't do this the stick was very stiff.  The latest patch fixed this bug and the stick starts with the menu force strengths properly.  Try setting these to 100% to see if the centering stiffness comes back in flight.

[Ghastly]

I wrote up a tension mod for the SideWinder 3D in May of 2000 (back in the Elvene days).  If I recall correctly, the disassembly on the FF stick was exactly the same up until you began to disassemble the actual internal mechanism, except that it didn't have a mode switch to worry about. Since I still have the write up, I thought I'd post the first section describing disassembly for you.     If it helps you out, great.  If not, then... sorry.  

<S>

Grue
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Disclaimer  -  As always, working with electronics requires static safe handling.

Note – for the purpose of this procedure, the front of the joystick is considered to be the direction you would push the stick directly away from you (pitch down) if the joystick were placed naturally on the desk in front of you in use.  Even when holding the unit upside down and “backwards” for disassembly, all references to left, right, forward, back, top and bottom refer to the joystick as if it were sitting on the desk in it’s natural position, unless specifically referenced to you instead.

Step 1: examine your joystick.  The procedure I describe was used on joysticks marked on the bottom with:
-----------------------------------
Microsoft ® Sidewinder ™ 3D Pro
Part No. 63545
-----------------------------------
Proceed cautiously in any event, but if you have a different part number use extreme caution.  Note the position of the mode selector switch on the front bottom of the joystick so that you can put it back in the same mode when done.  (edit-> the mode switch does not apply to the FF)

Step 2: Disconnect the joystick from the computer.  Place the joystick upside down in your lap, stick portion between your thighs, with the base resting comfortably in your lap.  Orient so that forward on the joystick is toward your body.

Step 3. Locate the first hidden screw under the label on the bottom of the joystick. Press in on the label on the “tion” portion of the word Corporation under the word SideWinder, and you will feel a hole behind the label. Using the very small flathead screwdriver or an exacto knife break/cut open the label at that point so that the head of the screw is visible.

Step 4. Locate the other 2 hidden screws on the bottom of the joystick.  Carefully pry up (damaging as little as possible) and remove the two rubber feet at the front corners of the joystick, and place them to the side.

Step 5.  You should now be able to see 7 screws in the base of the joystick.  Using the #1 Phillips, remove them.

Step 6. Center the mode selector switch exactly between the one and two dot settings.  Using both hands (thumbs positioned each side of selector switch) gently lift the plastic base of the joystick up and away from you, and it should freely detach from the rest of the joystick.   Note, from this point forward static safe precautions should be observed.

Step 7. (The rest describes how to mod the stick to remove the center slack, which is non-applicable to the FF stick)

[pervert]

It'll be your gears or your motors if theres just some play at the centre point it will be your gear they are made of plastic I'm wondering if you could get metal ones in there nrshida?

[nrshida]

What 715 said is of course right, always check the simple things first. I went from first to third gear there because Bravo said it happened suddenly in a tight turn. Ghastly that was very helpful of you

Are you also having trouble with your gears Pervert? You've probably got the most miles on a Sidewinder on this planet I think, with the possible exception of Batfinkv.

I'm wondering just how many people own or are snapping up old Sidewinders now? Judging from the prices on eBay demand is going up! I will have a look at options when mine arrives. If this is a weak point then it might be worthwhile to do some work on an improvement kit.

I'm going back to sit on the doorstep now & wait for the postman 

[pervert]

I've had my sidewinder longer than batty but his hands are more sweaty than mine  so he has the edge 

Regards an improvement kit or refurb kit, the things I'd like to change about it would be the buttons on base (although I believe they are intentionaly harder to press than the trigger to stop your resting hand from accidentialy pressing them) would like changed to an easier pressed button for my flaps.

A replacement set of motors and or gears poss metal and wider gears.

I don't rate any rudders on twisty sticks the sidewinder is no exception you might well show the post of how Kaz locked his twizzty on his sidewinder.

[zack1234]

I locked the twist on Logitec FF which improved it 100%
It like a new joystick now.

The twist action was tensioned by a very light spring and input was sensed by a strange pickup on a pivot.
Two dots of super glue on twist shaft stopped twist action.
Obviously I have pedals some be CH ones.

I have a set of saitek pedals and X52 setup going spare.

[Bravo80]

That would be great nrshida.  I did examine a step by step post which I found on the forem but it was for the old sidewinder, not the ff2.  I'm very leary about opening this thing up as I have no experience in electronics, any help you guys give is greatly appreciated.  I've tried several other sticks but eventually end up sending them back.  Thanks

[nrshida]

No problem Bravo, you'll have the instructions with pictures 24 hours after I get mine delivered + 1 hour of kicking the postman for taking so long.

Don't be afraid to disassemble. I'll take you through it step by step. The electronics just sits on one board which you should be able to ignore. There's just a few precautions to prevent further damage. If you have a handy friend or relative get them to help you too. Always a learning experience these things, that's the good part!

[nrshida]

Ok Bravo, I have it, hold the phone...