A pause to think...

[sparow]

Hi all!

As a AvA enthusiast and a no-icon adept I am feeling a growing difficulty with this setup that I was not able to describe properly but someone else did, in perfection, in another thread, as follows:

Spit, Hurri, P40, C202, and bombers stand out looking down into the ocean, the ground, or up into the clouds as black silhouettes then dots out to 4-5kd. The 109F-G2 dissapere from view in the same situations starting at about 1kd or after passing into a cloud layer. The only time they are visable as dots or black silhouettes is when they are back dropped against clear sky or inside of 1kd. All other aircraft on that map resolve from a dot, black silhouette then as whatever aricraft and paint scheme they are wearing.

Last night I watched this when POTW were flying from the english side of the map and I was flying aginst them from the german side. When I flew 109's against my squad they lost track of me if I didn't stay close in the furballs while in a 109. When I flew the C202 they could keep track of me inside of 5kd and followed me through all of my manuvers sea level past 15k. When I switched to the english side I could see the 109's on the map DAR but, most of the time couldn't visually resolve them untill they were inside of 1kd or closer. If they were over the water, most of the time thier pixels blended into the blue grey of the waters pixels with no outline motion differentiation or contrast from the background pixels. A bit like cloaked Klingon battel cruisers.

SYKO, Changeup, USVI, MODO, Waystin, Tempest, Lawndart along with myself were practicing in there last night. This phenominon was a common issue. Even in low furballs on the water the 109's would dissapere into the water at times if they had 200-400d separation below us against the ocean.

Have you guys performed any in depth visual testing of all these maps to know exaclty how the default skin or silhouette of every type of aircraft will show up in no-Icon mode?

I doubt every fighter will be rendered the same. Some fighters are not being rendered with visual contrast from the back ground they are seen against untill they are inside of 1k yards. But then, some fighters show up as a black dot, black cross then as an aircraft from 5k yards tracking into your aircraft against most back grounds. A good example is the C202, Hurri and spit5 vs. the 109F-G2 on the current map. 

The lack of motion contrast against background pixels vs. distance seems a technical issue related to the game and our video cards. If the 7 members of my squad and myself noted this phenominon, thats 8 different computers. This phenominon being a general factor, it would only be fair if you gents performed testing against different colored oceans and water. Terrains and cloud covers. Then place a note in the MOTD for each map to the results. Players who want to fight each other will make sure they see each other and fight. Some players, once they notice a curious difference in the game like this will leverage that over the arenas spirit of game play.  I suspect HTC had a very good reason for the big red Icon since he built this game's Matrix. 

NO-Icon is still a good idea. But, I doubt you gents have bothered to test and understand all of the idiosyncrasies of your monster.....

This is absolutely true. Bustr described exactly what I am experiencing when I fly in there. Is this solvable by allowing some skins and disabling others? Or swiching terrains? Looks like it's worse in these last maps. Would it be solved if we used a winter terrain with snow?

For the sake of AvA and the "No-icons" setup, we should try to solve this issue. Will our Arena Staff at least look into it? That would be very appreciated.

Cheers,

[Dichotomy]

I honestly hadn't considered until I read that post but I do well to stay alive for five or so minutes at a time.  Now that I've read it I will attempt to be more cognizant of that and chime in when I feel it's appropriate.

All of the above said (staffers prepare your ankles) I think the staff has busted serious a## to make this arena attractive to more people without, for the lack of a better phrase, 'selling out' the core things that have always made this my favorite arena. I think they really listen to the regulars and people with ideas that can be implemented that could improve the numbers and the experience for not only the regulars but new people that come in. 

Speaking of 'regulars' I haven't received my card in the mail.  I sent in my brib... I mean my 'membership fee' *wink wink a couple of weeks ago.  I did notice some cloven hoof prints around my mailbox a week or so ago 

[Easyscor]

That's not too surprising, compare the relative sizes. The 109s here suffer being slightly closer to the viewer as well, but for the most part, you can see that the Allied rides are substantially larger in this setup.

[Dichotomy]

Easy

That's freakin cool

[Puma44]

There's a membership fee?!  I'd a thought absorbing about a half ton of lead a few ounces at a time would more than cover it.  . 

[Mister Fork]

I'm wondering how much of this issue is due to the skin choice of the individual pilot. How did the pilots in WWII deal with the paint of enemy aircraft mixing into the background?

[Puma44]

Easy.  They either saw them or they didn't.  They didn't have the option of adjusting icon ranges back in the day.  .

[sparow]

Wow!

Nice touch Easyscor! Had forgot how small is the 109! I'm sure that paint helped hiding the planes in motion, but in RL, because paint over metal - or canvas - has different reflective behaviour than soil, bricks or foliage, it didn't completely turned them invisible... Gun cam footage let us see the cons very well... inbound or against the ground... they are B/W films, I wonder if that has something to do with it...

I am more inclined for one thing: a pixel of a certain color on the ground is the same than a pixel of the same colour on a plane, no surface reflection properties have a saying at it; other thing may be the colour that the planes assume when they shrink at a distance, the 109 dot must have a grey coloured pixel that blends it...

Also the all drab olive green P-51B is a problem to spot at short distances... Maybe the #1st effect, 100% blending...

A possible solution - although a bit stupid - would be to use terrains that would not allow full blending, like snowy or sandy maps... but this is a bit lame, really...

I wish I had a solution. But I'll keep playing no-icons, neverthanless and despite these drawbacks. Don't we have anyone in the comunity able to analise this colour issue?

Cheers,

[Dichotomy]

I actually tried today without success.  But it does raise interesting points.

BUT.. now that I'm used to it I prefer the no icons setting.  I love the knife fights and having to keep your head on a swivel and your ears open. 

[Easyscor]

(snip)
A possible solution - although a bit stupid - would be to use terrains that would not allow full blending, like snowy or sandy maps... but this is a bit lame, really...

I'm color blind, so naturally I'm more inclined to think it's mostly the small size of some of the planes that determine the effect pointed out in the original quote, but keep in mind that even in a "snow" terrain, a builder might decide to whitewash some of the rides making them remain invisible. 

[DEECONX]

I actually tried today without success.  But it does raise interesting points.

BUT.. now that I'm used to it I prefer the no icons setting.  I love the knife fights and having to keep your head on a swivel and your ears open. 

Agreed. I like the AvA in that, you are really forced to keep an eye out, and it makes wingmen so much more necessary. Really gets my blood pumping and my trigger finger twitchy. 

[CAP1]

That's not too surprising, compare the relative sizes. The 109s here suffer being slightly closer to the viewer as well, but for the most part, you can see that the Allied rides are substantially larger in this setup.

(Image removed from quote.)

ya know? i never realized how close in size the 38 o doom is to the ju88.

[CAP1]

Hi all!

As a AvA enthusiast and a no-icon adept I am feeling a growing difficulty with this setup that I was not able to describe properly but someone else did, in perfection, in another thread, as follows:

This is absolutely true. Bustr described exactly what I am experiencing when I fly in there. Is this solvable by allowing some skins and disabling others? Or swiching terrains? Looks like it's worse in these last maps. Would it be solved if we used a winter terrain with snow?

For the sake of AvA and the "No-icons" setup, we should try to solve this issue. Will our Arena Staff at least look into it? That would be very appreciated.

Cheers,

i've found that i lose EVERYTHING in the backround. i think this is more to do with choice of skins than anything else.

 what i have found is that i have no trouble spotting both friendly and foe cons at the same distances in the same fights if they're co=alt, or slightly above me.
 this is actually bringing fun, and new tactics into the fighting side for me.
 it used to be, that i tried to establish an alt advantage over you when we merged....then try to force you to burn your e while i maintained mine. in here, that gets me kilt, faster than my general lack of skillz.
 what i tend to do now, is to try and keep myself slightly below you, or co-alt to you.....and once i'm in to the point where i can make out what you're flying, and what you're doing, i try like a bastage to not let you extend out away from me anymore. this is how i'm most successful. my sa is seriously lacking in here, in a new way, insamuch as i never before got "target fixation" without realizing it. in here, i concentrate so heavily on what i'm doing, i get it a lot.
 none of this is complaints....this is all friggin GREAT stuff. it's re-vitalizing the game for me, with the deeper immersion.

[Dawger]

Some suggestions...........

Turn your terrain detail distance to minimum, I noticed there are lots of things in the Twin Rivers (and other terrains) terrain that sparkle and wink like a bogey.

Turn off shadows.. I find them incredibly distracting in a no icons fight. The shadow on the ground looks identical to the real bandit 98% of the time.

No icons requires that you search for graphics settings that give you the best possible experience. Less is more, usually.

80% of the AvA flyers are relying on their ability to sneak around at ground level. To deny this opportunity fly from a rear field and stay above 6K minimum.

[CAP1]

I actually tried today without success.  But it does raise interesting points.

BUT.. now that I'm used to it I prefer the no icons setting.  I love the knife fights and having to keep your head on a swivel and your ears open. 

yep.

the one that gives me a problem, is going from looking straight up, to back up.....the view does this little spiny thingie.......i often lose a con for a moment or so when that happens......