What if we have titanic tuesdays everyday?

[Latrobe]

I'm with the group that doesn't like TT. I really don't like the large furballs that go on in TT (1. I like base taking and that's why I play, and 2. my computer has trouble sometimes running with 80 icons on the screen). I still fly TT becuase there are those small groups around the map that are taking bases. Even if we aren't base taking, sometimes I find a nice small fight between 10 people that is by far more fun than the 30 vs 30 fights. Those fights are the best where everyone is fighting very well (and fair), and when you see that "109G6" in the skies, you already know who is flying it and what to expect from them.

I love the split arenas because it gives you more options to choose from. If LWO doesn't have the fight you're looking for, then you can hop right over to LWB and fight there. When arena cap kicks in though it can get tough to join the other arena, but you can always go grab a snack, see whats on TV, play a track or two from your favorite bands, and then try to log on again. I always do this and arena cap usually evens out by then.

[Reaper90]

I have to agree, that IMHO Tuesdays are the least enjoyable night of the week for me.

Me too, but only because my sorry out-of-date computer and connection mean that the sheer numbers of people on all at once cause my framerate to rarely rise above 10.

Otherwise, TT is head and shoulders above almost every other night of the week because you never have to go looking for a fight... they're everywhere.

BOOOOO split arenas and arena caps


YAAAAAY Action!

[Lusche]

I love the split arenas because it gives you more options to choose from. If LWO doesn't have the fight you're looking for, then you can hop right over to LWB and fight there. When arena cap kicks in though it can get tough to join the other arena, but you can always go grab a snack, see whats on TV, play a track or two from your favorite bands, and then try to log on again. I always do this and arena cap usually evens out by then.

Too bad when they even out only after 2h hours and then stay at 100 for the rest if your evening
But just to clarify: I don't have problems with the split arenas as they are. (Not anymore, that is. ) Actually I would like to become EW, MW, WW1 more attractive once again. (My dream would be about 100 in EW,MW, WW1, and 300 on a large map in LW - For me that would really mean having a choice!)

What makes me wonder sometimes are some gyus flying in TT Arena, complaining how bad the huge numbers suck (with only 300 players on a large map, LOL), but at the same time they stay there instead of playing in MW for example, with only 40-50 players.
One time I asked one why. He basically answered "too much dweebery in MW". Well, if there is too much dweebery with 300 players, but too much dweebery with only 40 players too - Are the numbers really your issue then?  

[Vudak]

I had to cancel my account recently for a bit because I just bought a house and am cramming in more school than I should (no money and no time), but I plan on coming back, so take my opinion for what it's worth (probably nothing until I'm paying again)...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I liked the days before ENY restrictions and before the arena splits.  No matter what I'm doing in life, I always have more fun when my back is to the wall.  Also, and though I guess this is kind of a stupid reason, I have that human "scratch off ticket" mentality when it comes to perks, and I like to rack them up.  I'd rather get ganged by ten 5-ENY rides than ten 20-ENY rides.  I'm going to die either way, but I'll get to fly the cool stuff quicker by fighting the former.

I've gotten better over the years, but instead of only the risk being reduced by my hard work, the reward has been artificially lowered as well.

I miss the days where we'd be down to our last few bases and everyone was rolling Tempests, 262s, 163s and -4s to desperately try to survive.  That was a thrill I haven't been able to find in some time...  Maybe it happens, but it's much more hit or miss.

[Dr_Death8]

And that would be bad Dr death. HTC has already determined that numbers over 400 on a consistent basis is bad for the subscription rates.

Understand that is what HTC is thinking, but #1, has it ever been validated, #2, the customer demand for it seems to be there, and #3, there is obviously an ongoing issue with the cap system.  The game is an immersion game and tries to simulate and portray the real thing. To accomplish that, what is better, 200-220 people scattered across 120 bases or 500-800 people in the same map?

From a business standpoint, I think what HTC may want to consider doing is to maybe conduct a few surveys to determine the best examples of what the customer is wanting, as any business needs to cater to the demands of the majority of there customers to remain successful r too grow. Especially being a small business which is operating at a global scale. Been playing the game off and on since probably 2001ish and never seen a customer survey. Maybe they do it at the conventions, but is that a true representation of your customers??

[Lusche]

From a business standpoint, I think what HTC may want to consider doing is to maybe conduct a few surveys to determine the best examples of what the customer is wanting, as any business needs to cater to the demands of the majority of there customers to remain successful r too grow.

At this point I'm all on HiTechs side: The customer doesn't always know / ask for what he really wants. It's pretty easy to run a company by surveys and giving the customer what he votes for... and in the end having a product that sucks and turns customers away.


Which of course doesn't stop me from telling HTC what I want day after day 

[Wiley]

Looking at Lusche's graph, I believe I have a reasonable point to make.  I realize I am not in possession of all the facts, but bear with me...

Up until the caps kick in, you've got ~150 total available people.  They all appear to be crammed into LWO.  Caps kick in, you get a slow climb in total numbers to 200.  At this point, you've got one 100 person arena, and one arena that's slowly climbing to 100 over a period of 1.5-2 hours.

I believe 100 and less is really not enough to populate an arena, particularly one of the gigantic ones like we tend to have in LWO lately.  We generally wind up with a horde on each side, with a few single guys off on their own doing their own thing hitting bases or whatever.  I tend to see the most fun when I'm in an arena that has more like 200 people in it.  There's more varied gameplay, maybe a couple hordes in different spots, a few smaller battles seem to crop up over the map instead of just one big one.

Ok, to be precise, I believe that splitting into two 100 person arenas is a bad choice when we could have 1 200 person arena with the wider varied gameplay for euro primetime, and then having the caps segue into 2 minimum 150s at the end of it, as population begins to climb.  200 is nowhere near the cesspool numbers I've seen thrown around, and it seems to me the better choice between the two.

Now granted, this is taken from a really small sample of data here, being one day, but if the quick spike from 23:00 to 1:00 is consistent, it doesn't take long for it to get pretty close to 300 total.

I hate myself for mentioning this, as I realize caps have been hashed around to death, but I believe it's a point I've never seen brought up before.

Wiley.

[Lusche]

Now granted, this is taken from a really small sample of data here, being one day,

[Wiley]

Heh, ok...  Still statistically small, but by the ones Lusche has put up, maybe the 'magic number' I'm thinking of is 250 instead of 200.  That way when they cap at 150 under my scenario it means they're both pretty close.  There's also probably a point where the composition of those numbers change, from as the Euros begin logging off and are replaced by American time zone folk.

I guess the main point I'm making is, 200-250 is not cesspool numbers, but 100 and less is boring as all getout, and I believe it would be better if it remained uncapped until the 200-250 mark before splitting.  150 as a minimum seems to me to generate much better gameplay than 100 as a minimum.  That difference of ~50 to a side as opposed to ~30 to a side is huge when it comes to generating better gameplay, IMO.

Wiley

[Dr_Death8]

Dude, just curious so do not take it the wrong way, but where do you get the data sets for the charts? Are you doing data analysis for HTC on the sly?? 

[Lusche]

Dude, just curious so do not take it the wrong way, but where do you get the data sets for the charts?

Login screen

I did Friday & Sunday too, but Friday was skewed by FSO - MA numbers were far lower than usual at US prime time due to like two hundred players in SEA.

[The Fugitive]

Yes, to limit the cesspool.  Personally, I find this insulting as a paying customer for 10 years.

I believe it was said the activity was turning the arenas into a cesspool, poor game play.

Just because HT does something, it does not automatically make it right.  For one thing, it is also our playground.  With out us, (the cesspool of paying customers) there is no play ground, and with out HT there is no play ground.  There has to be a balance on what gets done.  Treating it as only his play ground will lead to the playground being closed.  There is already a decline in the number of people on line, no?  Lets stop blaming the economy and try to find the real reasons and then fix them.  I like the game, but not so match with 150 people on.  Will like it a lot less with 100.

It has been posted that the reason they split the arenas was that poor play was creating a cesspool in the arena. This was causing people to NOT sign up for their subscriptions after the 2 week free trials. Subscription numbers either stagnated, or started to drop off. HTC split the arenas and added cap to allow not more that 400-450 in any arena. Low and behold the subscription numbers started to go up again.

Now we have to take HTC word for this as he has said there is noway he would release any info from the game, subscription numbers, aircraft flight model data, or even where they get the info is a very closely guarded secret and I for one have no problem with that. To me, I don't care how stubborn or pigheaded anyone is, if the change they made HURT their own business I'm pretty sure they would change it back quick. So we MUST go along with what is said.

HTC is a pretty shrewd businessman, from what I've seen. He has done this "business" a few times and this time has it going strong while all the others are falling by the wayside. I think that is a pretty good sign that he knows what he's doing when it comes to running HIS playground. Sure you CAN leave, but you haven't 

As far as TT goes, that is not my experience with it.  With a lot of people on I can find small fights here and there.  With 150 people on, all that is available is a hoarding attempt at a base and nothing else.  Maybe if they played the game they would have a better idea fo what is and is not going on in it.

To this date, I don;t remember seeing a good reason for the split other than generalizations.  I may have missed it though.

Pyro listed the main points of "why" they did the split. I don't have the thread saved.

There really isn't anything wrong with this game. The graphics are better than they use to be. The game mechanics are wide and varied. The vehicle/flight modeling is hard enough to make it challenging, while still having it so that it can "almost" be mastered. You can be a "fighter jock" or a "tanker", or a "ground mover". You can fly along, with a wingman, or a squad. You can just go out and kill, or you can capture bases and eventually "win the war".

The only problem I see is "HOW" people do these things. Over the last 5 years or so I've seen more and more people look for the "easy" way to do these things. The HO is the first move in 95% of fights because it's just to much trouble to learn to set up a real merge. Bombing is done "dive bombing carpet style", because even with our "lazer guided" sites its still too much trouble to calibrate and hit single targets. GVing is nothing but spawn camps or people who up a bunch at once to break it so they can....you guessed it set up their own spawn camp.

The problem with the game is the people playing it. Always looking for short cuts. It takes wayyyyy to long to learn how to play with out them. Funny thing is, that most of the people that use the short cuts spend so much time playing the game that if they spent half the time trying to get better they would be some pretty skilled players!

[DREDIOCK]

Understand that is what HTC is thinking, but #1, has it ever been validated, #2, the customer demand for it seems to be there, and #3, there is obviously an ongoing issue with the cap system.  The game is an immersion game and tries to simulate and portray the real thing. To accomplish that, what is better, 200-220 people scattered across 120 bases or 500-800 people in the same map?

From a business standpoint, I think what HTC may want to consider doing is to maybe conduct a few surveys to determine the best examples of what the customer is wanting, as any business needs to cater to the demands of the majority of there customers to remain successful r too grow. Especially being a small business which is operating at a global scale. Been playing the game off and on since probably 2001ish and never seen a customer survey. Maybe they do it at the conventions, but is that a true representation of your customers??

I dont think anyone has so much  problem with having split arenas as much as having a forced cap.
Some people really like large masses and some would prefer smaller fights. Given a choice between two arenas there will always be one that many of not most will want to get into, and others that will by their own choice choose one with smaller numbers.

I have always been a proponent of letting the players decide matters like this.But I would much rather see a base cap, that is capping the amount of planes that can up frm a base at any one time then an arena cap. This would be by far more realistic from an immersion standpoint then what we have now and would serve to spread out the fights over a larger front

[james]

It's thursday morning around 3am EST and it's still Titanic Tuesday. I hope it goes through the rest of the week. The numbers in the arena have not been so bad and everyone seems to be able to find a fight. The hordes weren't any more or less than what you would see in a split arena. 

[Ardy123]

It's thursday morning around 3am EST and it's still Titanic Tuesday. I hope it goes through the rest of the week. The numbers in the arena have not been so bad and everyone seems to be able to find a fight. The hordes weren't any more or less than what you would see in a split arena. 

I'm sorry, I have to disagree, I did not experience that at all. By 12:30PST it was dead. Perweeb and I were cruzing around looking for any fight we could find, and after 10 min of attacking virtually undefended targets, I logged out of boredom (there were only 2 people, if I recall correctly, defending a CV).