Author Topic: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD  (Read 24589 times)

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2010, 03:43:04 PM »
is there a clipboard map of the town?  I've never checked.....
Yes good luck applying that to town while flying over head.


« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 03:47:32 PM by lyric1 »

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2010, 03:46:45 PM »
I'm not tremendously fond of that idea just from a 'look and feel' point of view.  I realize we're all sitting at home in our easy chairs, drink in one hand and wearing bunny slippers, but the flag idea just seems gamey to me.  It'd be about as jarring and out of place as putting an HP bar over the enemy planes so you know how much damage you've done.  One of the great things about this game is the uncertainty of the effects you've had on the enemy.

I'd much rather just see a 90% down requirement for the town and no flag.  At least there's still some uncertainty then, and 1 building still up isn't going to pooch a good town attack.

Wiley.
Well I stand corrected then :lol. Your idea is still not a bad one. :headscratch: OK going with your premise lets make it 95% town down though.

Offline ImADot

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6215
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2010, 03:50:40 PM »
Like I said in the beginning getting any kind of co-ordinate attack now is futile.
All everyone wants to do is fur ball.
God I hate repeating myself

How many are in your squad?  Is your whole squad in bombers at 20k?  Are there any available to fly heavy JABO for cleanup, or fighters for cover, or have troops standing by?  I'm not trying to be a smart-ass; just help me to understand how you plan missions.

I understand it's difficult to find people to help (or to join an organized mission), but do you have any friends in the arena that you normally find flying in the same area as you, or have winged with in the past?  Do they like to furball?  Would they like to furball over the base you want to capture?  Do any of them like to GV?

I see your frustration with not getting the base capture, but that really isn't the point of a combat game.  The point is combat - base captures are a means to generate the fights.  If I spent two hours killing and dying and having a knock-down-drag-out fight without achieving the capture, then to me it's time well spent and I can log off feeling like I had fun.  If I didn't want to fight, I'd fire up X-Plane9 and do some sightseeing.
My Current Rig:
GigaByte GA-X99-UD4 Mobo w/ 16Gb RAM
Intel i7 5820k, Win7 64-bit
NVidia GTX 970 4Gb ACX 2.0
Track IR, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2010, 03:56:37 PM »
Yes good luck applying that to town while flying over head.


(Image removed from quote.)
Ive never needed it in the base captures Ive helped with in MW.  Was just wondering......I see your point though.  A LOT of data on that map.  The town really become more realistic, that's for sure.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27068
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2010, 04:00:34 PM »
I think the towns look nice.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline dirtdart

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1847
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2010, 04:00:40 PM »
I must say Bah to the 10+ capture, we have done caps with three guys.  Just takes the right condition setting in the surrounding bases and a bit of time.  Something you do not always have.  

I look at it this way, if one country can horde #s and mass on bases, they will roll them one after the other.  The only thing that used to stop that stuff was multiple bases being attacked with the possibility of being taken at the same time.  This caused the massing force to decide to take one or lose two.  This balance must return.  How it happen seems irrelevant, it just need to happen.  
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
Illigitimus non carborundum

Offline 1Boner

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2010, 04:03:33 PM »
I see your frustration with not getting the base capture, but that really isn't the point of a combat game.

For some people it is.

Some aren't very good at flying and continue to play the game by taking bases.

And they have fun doing it.

I've never seen anything wrong with it.

Yet at every step they seem to keep making it harder and harder for these guys to do what THEY like to do.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8079
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
Well I stand corrected then :lol. Your idea is still not a bad one. :headscratch: OK going with your premise lets make it 95% town down though.

:D  It's hardly 'my' premise, been brought up a bunch, I just think it's the best idea if something were to change to make it a bit easier to capture.  Heck, I'd be good with something like say, 3 buildings are allowed to be up or somesuch.

I'll also freely admit one of my pet peeves in games is what I term 'pixel hunts', where the alleged 'difficulty' of a task is your capability to recognize the one object out of the entire rest of your screen that's different.  I don't find hunting for the final building 'fun', but that's just me.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline crazyivan

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3920
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2010, 04:10:22 PM »
Quote

All everyone wants to do is milkrun, pad score and go full re-tard on ch200
   Everyone knows you never go full re-tard! :D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 04:15:58 PM by crazyivan »
POTW
"Atleast I have chicken!"- Leroy Jenkins

Offline ImADot

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6215
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2010, 04:11:15 PM »
Some aren't very good at flying and continue to play the game by taking bases.

And they have fun doing it.

I've never seen anything wrong with it.

I have nothing against anyone playing the way they want.  I used to be a base-taker - I'll still help with one if needed.  I'm just saying the point of the game is combat - whether it be "mindless furballing" or "base taking".  Everyone is entitled to do what they consider fun - with the exception of the turds that go out of their way to grief others.

Getting the base capture should be the icing on the cake; not the cake itself.
My Current Rig:
GigaByte GA-X99-UD4 Mobo w/ 16Gb RAM
Intel i7 5820k, Win7 64-bit
NVidia GTX 970 4Gb ACX 2.0
Track IR, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals

Offline crazyivan

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3920
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2010, 04:14:11 PM »
I think the towns look nice.
It's so nice I fly low over it in my IL2 , and get target fixated on an oaktree . Blast dang you to hell tree! Victory is mine!
POTW
"Atleast I have chicken!"- Leroy Jenkins

Online The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2010, 04:28:36 PM »
For some people it is.

Some aren't very good at flying and continue to play the game by taking bases.

And they have fun doing it.

I've never seen anything wrong with it.

Yet at every step they seem to keep making it harder and harder for these guys to do what THEY like to do.

The reason they make it "harder and harder" is to keep the challenge up, and the boredom down. On top of that, if these players that "aren't very good at flying" are not trying to get better whats the point of playing? If you are always getting your butt handed to you doesn't that drive you to get better?

I'm not one that fights my fights the same way every time, mostly because I'd loose every time. The same goes for the base captures. If you do it the same way every time as soon as people see that your on-line they will defend the same way each time to defeat you. You must learn to adapt and change the plan on the fly. Adapting also covers the issue about the town building. Sure it's tuff to see which are up or down, but that is only because you haven't adapted to the new towns yet.

Basically if you can't take a base with 10 guys, your doing it wrong! Start thinking of the right way to do it!

Offline doomed

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 194
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2010, 04:40:05 PM »
I have to agree that town capture is very very difficult now. It should be hard to take a town but now in my opinion every town capture just develops into huge hordes furballing and towns really get captured, at least while I'm on it seems but i could be wronge.

Maybe something as simple as just taking the hedge rows out so gvs can get in without the maze and without the hedges it makes it a bit more easy to see what building are up and which are down and last of all maybe have the buildings stay downl longer. I personally dont see how the guys that say they need 3 guys to do it can but I'm not a base cap expert.

I just think something needs to be change i do see less people on now and i play less too. The towns looking great though!!!!

Offline FLOTSOM

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2822
      • http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2010, 04:47:40 PM »
ya know there are how many recent threads complaining that now there are no furballs because of the new towns requiring hordes that vulch and drop hangers preventing any fight? and now you guys are complaining that there is no base taking because all that is going on is furballs......

which is it?????????????????????????

the intent of the game is to inspire competition and mock combat amongst a multitude of persons scattered across the world. so now your complaining that the game does just that?

it takes more effort and energy to take a base because the town takes more effort and energy to defeat, thus causing more individuals to put in the effort required to accomplish this task, thus causing more individuals to put in the effort required to defend against and block the capture of said base.

another thought that is being forgotten is that the longer the town takes to defeat the longer potential defenders have to fly in from other surrounding bases to defend and/or resupply the base without having to endure the inevitable vulching phase of every base capture attempt.

so by implication should this thread really be read as "i want my bases to be quickly (to fast for defenders to fly in from other bases with alt and speed) and easily (don't want to have to work for more than a minute or two to drop all the unprotected buildings, i.e. no ack,) capturable bases, with the opportunity to get in plenty of vulching (the defenders forced to up from the base i am attacking due to how quickly i can capture the field means they cannot up from another base before i can win) to pad my score with, even if i only have a couple of friends to work with (i want to do this all by myself and reap all the score and glory and cant understand why i cant)"

in the current instance the ends are justified BY the means. more people required to reach the goal equals more people involved in either the reaching and/or blocking the goal. Hitec wont break up the mega squads so in this instance he is putting them to some kind of use in either the attacking or defending roll. now that they actually serve a purpose you will complain that their purpose is too hard for you????

just a couple of years ago when i first started in AH i was a member of the B.O.P.'s (hey guys!) now the B.O.P.'s were then and as far as i know still are what could be called a MEGA squad. shortly after i joined them i watched as they created a multi pronged 110 mission that dropped and captured the first base in 2 minutes after the first round fired and went on to attack 4 more bases capturing a total of 4 of 5 targets in less than 45 minutes. they moved so fast against each target that there was almost no time for any type of defence at any of the bases but the last target, and i think that was just a lucky guess on the defenders part.

could the B.O.P.'s have accomplished as much against the size of the towns we now have? would they now have to take longer to capture a base and be required to place more emphasis on taking escort fighters with them? would they have likely been forced to fight some form of built up defense flying in from other bases preventing them from capturing landing re-upping and move on to the next target within minutes? how many people would have been involved in both attack and defense for this mission if the towns were as they are now? personally i think it would have made for a much more interesting event than a 45 minute roll over of the enemy front lines.

i am not saying that there shouldn't be a better way for those players involved in the action to see how much of the town remains standing, this is just a common sense request, but to spend your time whining about first the hordes required to take a base then the furballs that the hordes inspire is counter productive and a waste of time. these are age old arguments that do nothing here but muddy the waters and take attention away from the point you are attempting to make.

i reiterate here what i said in my previous post, make the towns a mixed bag of size and protection. those who want easy can go and seek it out, those who want a fight can go look for it. in my opinion that is the fairest way to go.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 05:02:11 PM by FLOTSOM »
FLOTSOM

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!
Quote from Skuzzy
"The game is designed to encourage combat, not hide from it."
http://www.myspace.com/prfctstrngr

Offline oTRALFZo

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 941
Re: TOWN TOO BIG FOR AVERAGE SQUAD
« Reply #89 on: October 12, 2010, 04:51:52 PM »
The reason they make it "harder and harder" is to keep the challenge up, and the boredom down. On top of that, if these players that "aren't very good at flying" are not trying to get better whats the point of playing? If you are always getting your butt handed to you doesn't that drive you to get better?

I'm not one that fights my fights the same way every time, mostly because I'd loose every time. The same goes for the base captures. If you do it the same way every time as soon as people see that your on-line they will defend the same way each time to defeat you. You must learn to adapt and change the plan on the fly. Adapting also covers the issue about the town building. Sure it's tuff to see which are up or down, but that is only because you haven't adapted to the new towns yet.

Basically if you can't take a base with 10 guys, your doing it wrong! Start thinking of the right way to do it!
Even if you put 10 towns you have take down for each field, noone is going to have enough sense to just come with 10 guys. I agree with you Fugi 100%, but players want instant gratification and they will go to no ends to get it. Making towns harder to capture just invites bigger, sneakier hordes.

Bottom line is there is no incentive other than to thrash the hopes and dreams of map jumpers to mount any defense in this game. Or to put yourself in any disadvantage. Find a way to reward those guys that fly in 1 vs 5s or that up on capped fields or even mount any sort of defense. Until then, people wont leave their comfort zone.
****Let the beatings begin***


in game name: Tralfaz