Angela Merkel

[Vudak]

you do realize you just made my argument, right.

3 or 4 bucks an hour? 

You want to get it up to 6 or 8?  Half the small businesses will have to close doors, and/or all of our prices for their services will increase.  You still won't get the job because now the clients will choose to do the menial tasks for themselves rather than pay the vastly increased price.  The bottom line is you can't have a minimum wage and no illegals.  Pick one or the other.

I think you fail to appreciate the economic benefit to the nation that the black market provides.  What, do you also think we continue the drug war because it is working?  The only thing it "saves" are the jobs of millions of attorneys, paralegals, police officers, judges, parole officers, etc. that would suddenly become quite redundant if drugs were ever legalized.

[CAP1]

You want to get it up to 6 or 8?  Half the small businesses will have to close doors, and/or all of our prices for their services will increase.  You still won't get the job because now the clients will choose to do the menial tasks for themselves rather than pay the vastly increased price.  The bottom line is you can't have a minimum wage and no illegals.  Pick one or the other.

I think you fail to appreciate the economic benefit to the nation that the black market provides.  What, do you also think we continue the drug war because it is working?  The only thing it "saves" are the jobs of millions of attorneys, paralegals, police officers, judges, parole officers, etc. that would suddenly become quite redundant if drugs were ever legalized.

 and yet when these very same employers that started hiring illegals decreased their expenditures by paying less, they did not lower their prices.

 and your last statement....do i take that to mean that you think drugs should be legalized? like you think someone should be allowed to legally go buy heroine?
 i truly hope i interpreted that line wrong, as i thought you were smarter than that........

[Vudak]

 and your last statement....do i take that to mean that you think drugs should be legalized? like you think someone should be allowed to legally go buy heroine?
 i truly hope i interpreted that line wrong, as i thought you were smarter than that........

It's getting bought one way or another.  Do you want the moneys to fund countries that harbor dictators and terrorists, or fund our own?  Would you rather keep giving criminal gangs a reason to fight over street corners, or take the major reason away?  Would you like to keep filling up our prisons and have them act as drug colleges and social network sites, or would you rather your tax dollars went at best to you, and at worst to something different that might or might not work (as opposed to something that certainly doesn't)?

Outright legalization would no doubt cause new problems, but having buried half a dozen young friends and family, I'm not so certain it would be worse than what we have now.  I'm willing to give it a shot and see what happens--It doesn't have to be written in stone for all time.

As much as I hate to quote FDR, he did have a great comment on life, "It is common sense to take a method and try it.  If it fails, admit it frankly and try another.  But above all else, try something."

This isn't rocket science... 

[Perrine]

what do they contribute?

i can't believe i didn't mention this in the previous post.... favorable revenue/expense for employers , (or they can use the savings there to acquire new, better things for the business)

[Ardy123]

Alright I'll say it... this weeks flavor of xenophobia is the stereotype of the 'illegal immigrant'.
Fear often manifests as hate, which doesn't have to wear white sheets or red arm bands.

yeah, I said it... and you should be ashamed. 

[CAP1]

i can't believe i didn't mention this in the previous post.... favorable revenue/expense for employers , (or they can use the savings there to acquire new, better things for the business)

you mean for the employers that should be in jail/?

[CAP1]

Alright I'll say it... this weeks flavor of xenophobia is the stereotype of the 'illegal immigrant'.
Fear often manifests as hate, which doesn't have to wear white sheets or red arm bands.

yeah, I said it... and you should be ashamed. 

wait?? i should be ashamed because i don't like criminals?? you're joking, and trolling now, aren't ya?

[Vudak]

wait?? i should be ashamed because i don't like criminals?? you're joking, and trolling now, aren't ya?

It's hard to believe a guy who is pro-drug war really doesn't like criminals.  It sure creates a hell of a lot of them.

[CAP1]

It's hard to believe a guy who is pro-drug war really doesn't like criminals.  It sure creates a hell of a lot of them.

now i know you're trolling.

[guncrasher]

We are switching from a nation of doers to one of blame everybody else.  And for the record we have been the numero uno creator of dictatorships in latin america for over 100 years.  I am not ashamed to say I am a us citizen either.


Semp

[Ardy123]

where the illegals hurt us, is that even IF you wanted to take a job washing dishes until you found a job in your field, you won't get it, 'cause jose is doing it for 3 to 4 bucks an hour..

Competition can suck, which also happens to be the fundamental feature of capitalism... (I'm not trolling for a debate about capitalism or other economic management forms)

We are switching from a nation of doers to one of blame everybody else.

Couldn't agree more, taking responsibility is what no one is good at anymore. You have to strive to the the best at what you do, if not, someone will beat you at your own game. As globalization becomes more and more of a reality, unless you live in the country with the most devalued currency in the world, you will never be able compete on price, so you have to compete on other factors such as quality.

[CAP1]

Competition can suck, which also happens to be the fundamental feature of capitalism... (I'm not trolling for a debate about capitalism or other economic management forms)

competition actually does not suck.

what sucks is competition when one of the business owners employs criminals, which he pays less, thus allowing him to undercut the business which employs hard working legal citizens, which he is paying a fair rate to. it really IS that simple.

 wanna work here? come in legally, and we'll all welcome you. 

[Ardy123]

what sucks is competition when one of the business owners employs criminals, which he pays less, thus allowing him to undercut the business which employs hard working legal citizens, which he is paying a fair rate to. it really IS that simple.

I agree with that sentiment in that we should all be playing the same game, I don't believe that blaming illegals is the appropriate or constructive way of dealing with it. If you truly believe its an economic and not cultural/racial issue, pick on the enabler, not the people who have limited to no options (however easy it might be).

[Perrine]

you mean for the employers that should be in jail/?

Won't happen promptly as there are conflict of interests, it will disrupt some sectors of the economy and disrupt state economies (states where employers rely on 'informal' hiring, and states with diverse and dynamic economy to stay competitive)
As of now (and well in the future) there's no interest and will to enforce and uphold laws already in place.  For example, see California's rules by the book (see 834b) that's equal or equivalent to Arizona.  Also, it's unrealistic that (well let's say Los Angeles,CA for example) we will see high profile massive workplace raids in downtown's fashion and jewelry district.


(edit for cleanup_)

[CAP1]

I agree with that sentiment in that we should all be playing the same game, I don't believe that blaming illegals is the appropriate or constructive way of dealing with it. If you truly believe its an economic and not cultural/racial issue, pick on the enabler, not the people who have limited to no options (however easy it might be).

i already have said that i think that those that employ illegals should be in jail. i could go one step farther, and have everything that they own confiscated, much like what they do to drug dealers.