Author Topic: Angela Merkel  (Read 5403 times)

Offline Perrine

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2010, 05:56:32 PM »
I have not looked into it in a very long time, but when I did, the US policy on immigrants was based on how many people of a specific country are here already.  So, not a ban on mexico but the US felt that there were plenty of Mexicans here.  The Iralnd example came from my friend.  She got a green card and moved here.  When I asked how, she said she just applied for it.  The US back then was giving x number of green cards per year to Irish but 0 to others.  I think if you were from Denmark you got in automatically no questions asked because there are not enough Danish people here.

Not sure how it works now.  It sounds like you guys think you can just apply for a green card and the US gives you one?  Far from the truth.  The borders are not open.  If you dont have relatives here (and that process can take up 10 or more years) or are not from one of the special countries, you are not getting in legally.  Do you honestly think that given a choice these guys would say no all the benefits that come with citizenship and come here to work for almost nothing without health care or pention?



The Green Card backlog is (and has been for some time) an issue and it hurts future, prospective citizens . New ways must be implemented to streamline process (and even reduce costs).

http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/business-climate/15110148-1.html

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:lg8Nn8vTGfsJ:www.aila.org/content/default.aspx%3Fdocid%3D25509+green+card+backlog&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiBKRy5m2Eu6pgjBOU_Y2N-byCAwQHKu6z5WMnFvtBIFpGGaK93hXhdv3QqJ9Ercbbcb5Q4RubymQjsr-oiE9Pod6gVzXUpkFrpxdqQmWksQbPqSKbr0jm7yakw03NDTjBop37s&sig=AHIEtbRBAmmCz0IQzZDQYLI9i6EKCUhsLg
 
"It's a dream come true, but it's just that..... a dream."
http://www.youtube.com/v/RVhgb6yoc8w

The backlog can be severe to certain nationals as seen in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/v/0F5F9Wmfjd4
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 06:04:44 PM by Perrine »

Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #211 on: October 25, 2010, 09:26:26 AM »
I've already said it, because LEGAL immigration is a LONG, DIFFICULT process, as well it should be, because it ENSURES that these people UNDERSTAND the country and culture they are coming in to, and will be able to ASSIMILATE into the culture, rather than cling to their old culture and make us miserable.

Its all clear now lol.  In your opinion, before someone gets a working visa from India (for example) to come work here legally, taking a job from an American that pays 100K or more per year, he some how learns, cares, or understands the culture?  I have bad news for ya.  They could care less!  Most only speak broken English and they give nothing back.  Not only they take a high paying job from an American, they send everything back to their country when done.  According to you guys, that is perfectly fine because an American company that did not feel like paying an American what he is worth based on his investment of time and money to go to college and get a degree, managed to get a visa for a guy that will get payed only 20K or 30K.  :aok  WTG!!!  Pick on the Mexicans that took your busboy jobs illegally  :rofl

Told you before, its the legals that take your jobs (unless your dream job was to be a fry cook).  All this is BS or complete luck of understanding of what your problems may be (or just a way to blame someone else for your problems?) 

Legal does not make it right.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Serenity

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #212 on: October 25, 2010, 11:08:08 AM »
Its all clear now lol.  In your opinion, before someone gets a working visa from India (for example) to come work here legally, taking a job from an American that pays 100K or more per year, he some how learns, cares, or understands the culture?  I have bad news for ya.  They could care less!  Most only speak broken English and they give nothing back.  Not only they take a high paying job from an American, they send everything back to their country when done.  According to you guys, that is perfectly fine because an American company that did not feel like paying an American what he is worth based on his investment of time and money to go to college and get a degree, managed to get a visa for a guy that will get payed only 20K or 30K.  :aok  WTG!!!  Pick on the Mexicans that took your busboy jobs illegally  :rofl

Told you before, its the legals that take your jobs (unless your dream job was to be a fry cook).  All this is BS or complete luck of understanding of what your problems may be (or just a way to blame someone else for your problems?) 

Legal does not make it right.

A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #213 on: October 25, 2010, 11:19:45 AM »
A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.
THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #214 on: October 25, 2010, 11:24:35 AM »
THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.


Very true as well.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #215 on: October 25, 2010, 11:32:20 AM »
THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.


Exactly what I said foo lol.  They will take the 100K+ jobs from Americans that invested money and time into getting a degree.  If you are competing with the illegals for the minimum wage jobs you have no one to blame but yourself.  If you were born here and threw away all the opportunities this country has to offer to you don't blame them for it.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #216 on: October 25, 2010, 11:39:14 AM »
A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.

Why yes I have.  They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol.  So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?

I think the point got lost somewhere.  I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open.  I am just trying to explain why these people do cross.  Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option.  If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing.  In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up.  Legal immigrants on the other hand do.

Complain all you want.  If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self.  However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame?  How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans? 
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Serenity

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #217 on: October 25, 2010, 11:49:31 AM »
Exactly what I said foo lol.  They will take the 100K+ jobs from Americans that invested money and time into getting a degree.  If you are competing with the illegals for the minimum wage jobs you have no one to blame but yourself.  If you were born here and threw away all the opportunities this country has to offer to you don't blame them for it.

Yeah, because I threw my life away when I chose to go to college and earn a degree... Because I am spending most of my free time training to be a Navy officer and don't have time for anything more than a small part-time job on the side that pays minimum wage, I should blame myself for throwing away the opportunity to try to land a 100K corporate gig...

Just because someone is working for minimum wage doesn't mean they've thrown away opportunities. Perhaps they are just trying to get their foot in the door of the industry, or they're a teen trying to earn some spending money, or someone paying their way through college?

Why yes I have.  They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol.  So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?

I think the point got lost somewhere.  I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open.  I am just trying to explain why these people do cross.  Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option.  If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing.  In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up.  Legal immigrants on the other hand do.

Complain all you want.  If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self.  However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame?  How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans? 

Actually, I don't think that would be a terribly bad idea to test Americans regularly. Don't toss in deportation, but I for one am embarrassed if I ever find someone from another country outscoring me in U.S. History.

I don't honestly care why they came here. Really, I don't give a flying ****. HOW they get here is what matters to me. Do it illegally and face consequences. Do it legally and welcome aboard!

Why are we not worried about folks at the top coming in and trying to earn 100K a year jobs? Because they aren't taking drastic paycuts to get the job, they aren't exploiting a lack of responsibility (i.e. not paying for insurance, etc.) to undercut their costs to snag the job. They are competing for the same pay, the same benefits, based on similar competency. If I'm going for a job at a fortune 500 company and I lose out to Jose, I know it's because he is better at the job, has a better resume, etc, and not because he's working for half the price, not paying for insurance, working a million hours a day, and dodging INS.

And again, just because someone didn't grow up dreaming to be a fry cook doesn't mean they won't get a job as one for a spell to pay their way. I dreamed of being a pilot in the U.S. Military. They wouldn't pay for me before college, so I earned my pilot's license by pushing a broom after class.

As far as legally, I've got news for you buddy. It's called integrity. When I worked for minimum wage, did I like the job? No. Did I like the pay? No. Did I have other options? I had a local tour company offering me a job flying tourists under the table. I would be doing what I love (flying all day) and get paid ten times what I was making. The catch? I was under 18, so I couldn't LEGALLY obtain a commercial ticket. Did I have a basic license? Yes. Was I certified in the aircraft? Yes. Would it put anyone in danger? No. Did I take it? No. Why? Because it was against the law, and my sense of integrity would sooner put me doing an honest days work.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #218 on: October 25, 2010, 11:52:29 AM »
Why yes I have.  They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol.  So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?

I think the point got lost somewhere.  I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open.  I am just trying to explain why these people do cross.  Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option.  If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing.  In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up.  Legal immigrants on the other hand do.

Complain all you want.  If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self.  However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame?  How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans? 

you're either missing a point here, ignoring it, or just enjoying the argument.

 the illegal that comes in and takes the "fry cook" job will not be getting it because he's better qualified. he'll get it because he's willing to work for absurdly low wages, whereas the legal resident cannot afford to do that. after all he's got bills and such.

 in the example of the legal that comes over and takes the higher paid job.....that would be a person who's taken the training, and gotten qualified. in this instance, what you said is correct......if you lose your job to a legal, then it is only your fault, because qualifications are all that are being used to decide who gets that job. why? because now it's an even playing field......they have to pay taxes now too, and they too have bills now.....
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #219 on: October 25, 2010, 12:31:32 PM »
What I laugh about in this entire discourse is this....

The same folks that espouse a free market economy that rewards companies for making the most possible profit, are the same folks crying when that free market economy employs the cheapest possible labor that takes away "American" Jobs.

Hypocritical, don't you think?  One value set does not equal the other.  You cannot support a free market and denounce immigration (legal or illegal); they are not mutually exclusive, as proven by history.

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Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #220 on: October 25, 2010, 12:53:37 PM »
after all he's got bills and such.


Crap, illegals don't have bills?  That is it.  I am applying for Mexican citizenship tomorrow and then I am coming back illegally.  Looks like I've been doing it wrong all this time lol
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #221 on: October 25, 2010, 01:00:31 PM »
Yeah, because I threw my life away when I chose to go to college and earn a degree... Because I am spending most of my free time training to be a Navy officer and don't have time for anything more than a small part-time job on the side that pays minimum wage, I should blame myself for throwing away the opportunity to try to land a 100K corporate gig...

Just because someone is working for minimum wage doesn't mean they've thrown away opportunities. Perhaps they are just trying to get their foot in the door of the industry, or they're a teen trying to earn some spending money, or someone paying their way through college?


lol, so we are saying the same thing then?  An illegal cannot take your job in the Navy away, can he?  So, you either don;t understand what I say or you just don;t like Mexicans.  Isn't this the real issue behind all this?  I am not talking about temporary minimum wage jobs.  We all had one of those.  Did they take yours?  I am guessing no right.  Now, if 20 years from now you are in the same minimum wage job and you lose it to a Mexican, don;t look for sympathy here.

As I said, all BS.  They could not take your job because your employer does not want to take the risk for a few $.  There are about 5 jobs they can easily take.  You are smart guy.  Figure out what they are and tell me if you want to do them.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #222 on: October 25, 2010, 01:02:33 PM »
What I laugh about in this entire discourse is this....

The same folks that espouse a free market economy that rewards companies for making the most possible profit, are the same folks crying when that free market economy employs the cheapest possible labor that takes away "American" Jobs.

Hypocritical, don't you think?  One value set does not equal the other.  You cannot support a free market and denounce immigration (legal or illegal); they are not mutually exclusive, as proven by history.



Not at all.  I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS.  Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here  :lol.  Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread  :rofl
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #223 on: October 25, 2010, 01:16:12 PM »
Not at all.  I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS.  Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here  :lol.  Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread  :rofl

Bottom line, in a free market economy, either the most qualified applicant, intellectually or physically for each job, (or the cheapest labor) will win.  Generally, the most qualified and cheapest will win.  That's the way the system is built.

If that's an Indian from New Delhi who paid attention in the classroom and proved he can learn anything at a higher level than the American that slid through high school and college with C's... (this also segways into the ongoing American devaluation of Education, but, another thread)..... so be it.  You cannot defend a stance of supporting a free market economy to denouncing immigration.   It simply lacks any semblance of logic.  The free market will always choose the cheapest option, because that is its' central tenant.

The major difference between the Indian and the American?  American children are gifted with the innate feeling of entitlement to a 100K (or higher) plus job, by virtue of our rich society.  The Indian will work his arse off to get it, in school and on-the-job, and is willing to start at the bottom to prove himself, by virtue of his "poor" society.  You cannot sit on a platform of societal bias, whereas the American is "guaranteed" a job, because of his/her citizenship, but still "require" a higher salary.  Ask any college senior, these days.  They turn their noses up at 35-40K starting salaries. Their innate sense of worth is misguided and misconstrued by the societal cues around them.

I just recently had to laugh at a girl about to graduate with a Master's in my field.  Smart young lady, but seriously out of touch.  I explained she better be ready to accept a job at around 28-35K starting, if it even presented itself.  She gasped like that was an insult, and proceeded to tell me she was worth 55 to 60 K starting, and wouldn't "accept" a penny less.  In my field of biology, if you make 60K, you're definitely on the 25th percentile, or maybe a bit higher.  Directors of internationally renowned research stations, with 20 years of publishing make just over 100K if they are lucky.  But this 20 something tells me she's going to make 60 out of the box, or she's turning it down..... LMAO.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:32:35 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Angela Merkel
« Reply #224 on: October 25, 2010, 01:20:52 PM »
Not at all.  I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS.  Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here  :lol.  Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread  :rofl

Also, in economic downturns, the society in question generally points the finger of blame at the newest members, rather than at the direct causal relationships that contributed to said downturn.  This is human nature, and is historically proven.
"Ocean: A body of water occupying 2/3 of a world made for man...who has no gills."
-Ambrose Bierce