German AC on the eastern front.

[oakranger]

I going to say "No" on this but want to see if anybody may know more then i do on this.  Did the eastern front saw any Ar-234, 262s, 109G-10, 14, K, 190D-9 or Th-152?  Being these where mostly used to defend Germany from Allies (U.S., British) bombers in the western front. 

[Squire]

When examining this question you have to remember that by 1945 the "Eastern Front" was close enough to Germany and Austria that Soviet a/c could reach many Luftwaffe bases. Most of the a/c you list were in fact "facing west" vs the USAAF and RAF although the 109G-14 and G-10 were certainly used in the "Eastern Front" JGs.

Simple map but you can see how close the VVS get from Jan-Feb 1945. 200 miles gets you past Berlin in many cases:

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/yaltamap3.jpg

[Perrine]

109G-14's performance envelop looks geared for eastern front, so it's safe to say it saw service in the eastern front.

190D-9 saw action against red army, former stuka pilot from the eastern front Hans Rudel flew 190d-9 and shot dow 9 red army fighters.

[oakranger]

When examining this question you have to remember that by 1945 the "Eastern Front" was close enough to Germany and Austria that Soviet a/c could reach many Luftwaffe bases. Most of the a/c you list were in fact "facing west" vs the USAAF and RAF although the 109G-14 and G-10 were certainly used in the "Eastern Front" JGs.

Simple map but you can see how close the VVS get from Jan-Feb 1945. 200 miles gets you past Berlin in many cases:

http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/yaltamap3.jpg

With all you said i used that to back up my claims.  Although, the 109G-10 and 14 i thought may be a possibly in the Eastern front.  LOL, can you imagine the Russians, in the I-16, expression when a 262 attacked them.  

[oakranger]

109G-14's performance envelop looks geared for eastern front, so it's safe to say it saw service in the eastern front.

190D-9 saw action against red army, former stuka pilot from the eastern front Hans Rudel flew 190d-9 and shot dow 9 red army fighters.

The 190D-9 i really did not think would be in the eastern front.  For some reason, i was think that it was assigned to go after the bombers in the western front instead messing with a less threat Russian bombers/fights. 

[Perrine]

I thought the D-9 was more of an escort fighter for Me262 bomber destroyers...

I'm sure D-9s tangled with both sides, and even p-51s shot soviet fighters such as La-7 due to mistaken identity (they thought La-7s looked like Fw 190As)

[MiloMorai]

I going to say "No" on this but want to see if anybody may know more then i do on this.  Did the eastern front saw any Ar-234, 262s, 109G-10, 14, K, 190D-9 or Th-152?  Being these where mostly used to defend Germany from Allies (U.S., British) bombers in the western front. 

Ar234 > no, MTO and ETO
Me109s > most certainly (Hartmann flew a G-10)
Fw190D > yes, at least with IV./JG3
Ta152H > claimed a Russian a/c so......
Me162 > yes, in the ground attack role

[Ack-Ack]

190D-9 saw action against red army, former stuka pilot from the eastern front Hans Rudel flew 190d-9 and shot dow 9 red army fighters.

Not all of Rudel's kills against Soviet planes were in a Dora.  He has at least two kills in the Ju 87, one being Soviet ace Lev Shestakov and he has some other kills recorded while flying the FW 190F 8.  Also, not all of the planes Rudel shot down were fighters, at least two of them were IL 2s.

ack-ack

[oakranger]

Ar234 > no, MTO and ETO
Me109s > most certainly (Hartmann flew a G-10)
Fw190D > yes, at least with IV./JG3
Ta152H > claimed a Russian a/c so......
Me162 > yes, in the ground attack role

162 in a ground attack role?  I find that highly unlikely.

[MiloMorai]

162 in a ground attack role?  I find that highly unlikely.

Oops, fat finger > Me262. Should have been obvious that it was a typo since you didn't ask about the Me162.

[oakranger]

Oops, fat finger > Me262. Should have been obvious that it was a typo since you didn't ask about the Me162.

LOL, i was starting to question your facts on 163.  However, never heard a 262 assigned in a ground attack role but they where first talked about using them till Hitler said no, or something like that.  Interesting though.

[Krusty]

Consider that the Soviets captured and flew Me262s agains the Germans.

The answer is "Yes" to all of the above. At the time (1945) the Soviets were pounding on the door to Berlin as much as the US/GB were.


Only, you're rather foolish to asume they were still flying I-16s in 1945 to see Me262s. They had some of the best performing aircraft in the war in 1945 (La-7, many Yaks, developing their own rocket planes and jets, etc).

[JHerne]

If you want - I can provide you with the dispositions of the various JGs on both fronts, including the aircraft types on hand.

Hermann Graf's last mount was a K-4, Hartmann definitely flew a G-10 up to his 350th kill, although there's strong evidence he was flying a G-14/AM around October of '44 and a K-4 at the end of the war (by Hartmann's own account, so don't shoot the messenger). That being said, no photos of Hartmann's K-4 are known to exist. There's an interesting blog entry from a fellow Luftwaffe researcher that offers a viable explanation... http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/06/hartmanns-last-109s.html

The D-9s providing cover for the 262s of JG44 was actually a small group, the Sachsenberg-Schwarm or Papagei Staffel. These were the red-underbelly Doras we often see in the game.

As others have said, by the time Stab/JG301 received their Ta-152s, there really was no Eastern/Western front as far as air operations were concerned. Herr Reschke in a Ta-152 shot down a Tempest and 2 Yak-9s in the days of the war, so....

163s operated from Brandis...D-9s were active on both fronts, 262s were all over as well, and yes, they were used operationally with 234s on the bridge attacks at Remagen. 234s operated in Norway, with aircraft from Einskdo 1/(damn filter) F.A.Gr1 and KG 76 being stationed there....

Pretty amazing to think about it really - many of these aircraft arriving so late in the war and ending up where they did.

J

[Lusche]

 LOL, can you imagine the Russians, in the I-16, expression when a 262 attacked them.  

In one of his books Steinhoff described a dogfight vs a bunch of soviet fighters, him being in a Me 262. He didn't manage to get any kills though.

Oh, and the days of the I-16 were long gone in 1945

[MiloMorai]

LOL, i was starting to question your facts on 163.  However, never heard a 262 assigned in a ground attack role but they where first talked about using them till Hitler said no, or something like that.  Interesting though.

I didn't mention the 163.