Author Topic: Optimum Budget Aces High System  (Read 2204 times)

Offline Ghosth

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
Most of my parts have come from mwave or newegg but yes I have bought from tiger direct.

But let me put it this way.

Dec of 07 I bought 2 systems from newegg, went with a mwave case with 500 watt power supply mwave brand. Paid 60$ for the cases.

June of 08 a close friend of mine built 2 systems, most of the parts from tiger direct, including 2 cases & 500 watt power supplys.  He paid just a bit less for his cases with 500 watt power supplys than I did. I think in the mid 50's for case and power supply.

Fast forward 3 years, both of my systems are still running on the original mwave power supplys.
Both of his have failed. One of them when it failed may have screwed up other parts.

You get what you pay for. When you pay for the cheapest stuff you can find that is exactly what you get.

There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish. Sometimes its better to spend just a few dollars more and get a part that will last years longer.

Tiger has its place, its just not a place I choose to go unless I truly have no other choice.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2011, 10:19:05 AM »
Most of my parts have come from mwave or newegg but yes I have bought from tiger direct.

But let me put it this way.

Dec of 07 I bought 2 systems from newegg, went with a mwave case with 500 watt power supply mwave brand. Paid 60$ for the cases.

June of 08 a close friend of mine built 2 systems, most of the parts from tiger direct, including 2 cases & 500 watt power supplys.  He paid just a bit less for his cases with 500 watt power supplys than I did. I think in the mid 50's for case and power supply.

Fast forward 3 years, both of my systems are still running on the original mwave power supplys.
Both of his have failed. One of them when it failed may have screwed up other parts.

You get what you pay for. When you pay for the cheapest stuff you can find that is exactly what you get.

There is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish. Sometimes its better to spend just a few dollars more and get a part that will last years longer.

Tiger has its place, its just not a place I choose to go unless I truly have no other choice.

2nd'ed

My Mom has purchased (2) Tiger Direct  ( TigerMax  or SystemMax ) computers from Tiger Direct and even with the extended warrantys they both came up short......... now these were not cheapo computers with the cheapest parts ( supposedly).... but after having 2 MB's replaced and a Hd replaced in the 1st one....... which came with Windows XP Pro  ( yet was preloaded in FAT32 file structure ) and then ordering a 2nd PC from TD and it having failed several times with Video card, HD, MB, MB, Memory........ and again setup in FAT32 file structure......

I finally convienced her to let me build her one instead......

when I talked with Tiger Direct, their tech told me that they always load their XP systems in FAT32 file structure...... the reason being that it was an easier setup process for them while preloading the OS.....

most would think to take advantage of the NTFS file structure that WinXP boasted about.......

you can find some things at Tiger Direct that are good buys sometimes... but I would never give advise to someone to do any mass buying from them.........

Mom was the last in the family to finally let me build her a PC verses the 5 different PC's she bought to begin with  ( NEC, Compaq, Compaq, SystemMax, SystemMax )  She says she has never had such a great PC that did not give her any problems in the last 7 or so months it has been up and running....


I suggest anyone  ( everyone ) who is wanting to build their own PC or order from a reputable PC Builder to do their research thoroughly...... and don't just go by a Website/online stores  item feedback, go search several different places for feedback before buying......

Good Luck
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Warty

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2011, 09:25:51 PM »
Hi Guys,

I'm looking to build a pc for AH. This will be the first PC I've built in 10+ years, so I could really use some help evaluating the different options.

My goals for running AH:
- 1920 x 1080 (will run on tv)
- 4x FSAA
- good visibility/distance in game
- 50 FPS minimum average (with say 10 planes in area, forward view)

I don't intend to use it for anything other than AH at this point, because I have limited time for gaming, and don't know of any other games out right now that would be more fun.

I made a tentative list, based on this thread, and upon a this Tom's Hardware guide:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-core-i3-overclock-system-builder,2809.html

I was going to ask folks to take a look and see if they see anything stupid. In particular, I don't know if I need that (relatively) expensive memory, in this setup. I don't know squat about video cards, other than what I've kind of picked up reading in here the last couple days. Well that's what I was going to ask, but not Sandy Bridge CPUs were announced, it seems like I should probably hold off, and retool everything for a sandybridge i5? On the other hand, I've got some serious withdrawal going on here...

For budget, I was trying to keep it under $800, which seemed pretty reasonable for a good pc for AH. I have to get win7 and some controller hardware as well, and it all adds up rather quickly... I would go over a bit to get a better processor if that was the best thing to do, or I'd get a cheaper processor and a better video card if that made sense.

Here's what I came up with:
      Motherboard
   
      Asus Sabertooth 55i
      LGA 1156, Intel P55 chipset
   
      $147
   
      http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-P7P55D-1156-Intel-Motherboard/dp/B002ZVAXPE
   
      Processor
   
      Intel Core i3-550
      3.2 GHz, Dual-Core, 4 MB L3 Cache
   
      $125
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115065&Tpk=Intel%20Core%20i3-550
   
      CPU Cooler
   
      Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
   
      $30
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&Tpk=Cooler%20Master%20Hyper%20212%20Plus
   
      Memory
   
      GeIL Black Dragon 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3-1333
      Dual-Channel Desktop Memory Kit
   
      $95
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144447&cm_re=GeIL_Black_Dragon-_-20-144-447-_-Product
   
      Graphics
   
      1 GB ATI card
   
      $140
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125309
   
      Hard Drives
   
      WD caviar blue 250 GB SATA 7200 RPM
   
      $45
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136161
   
      Optical
   
      ASUS DVD-RW
   
      $20
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
   
      Case
   
      NZXT Gamma
   
      $40
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061&Tpk=NZXT%20Gamma
   
      Fans
   
      2 x APEVIA CF12S-BK 120 mm
   
      $8
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835228010&Tpk=APEVIA%20CF12S-BK%20120%20mm
   
      Power
   
      Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650 W
      ATX12V, EPS12V, 80 PLUS Certified
   
      $90
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=Corsair%20CMPSU-650TX%20650%20W
   
      OS
   
      Windows 7 Home Premium OEM
   
      $100
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754&cm_re=windows_7_OEM-_-32-116-754-_-Product
   
      
   
      Subtotal
   
      $840
   
   




Offline Tigger29

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 12:26:19 AM »

Dec of 07 I bought 2 systems from newegg, went with a mwave case with 500 watt power supply mwave brand. Paid 60$ for the cases.

June of 08 a close friend of mine built 2 systems, most of the parts from tiger direct, including 2 cases & 500 watt power supplys.  He paid just a bit less for his cases with 500 watt power supplys than I did. I think in the mid 50's for case and power supply.

Fast forward 3 years, both of my systems are still running on the original mwave power supplys.
Both of his have failed. One of them when it failed may have screwed up other parts.

Tiger has its place, its just not a place I choose to go unless I truly have no other choice.

So you're basing your opinions of an entire company (which sells many different brands of products) on the fact that your friend's cheap power supplies from TigerDirect didn't last as long as your cheap power supplies from NewEgg?  You do understand that there are a lot more factors involved with this than simply the product vendor, right?

1> The brand of P/S he got may have been less quality than your 'mwave' brand power supplies
2> Your friend may have been using more power hungry processors/video/peripherals than you.  A heavier load will reduce the life of a power supply, ESPECIALLY the cheap ones.
3> Your friend may have been operating the computers under worse conditions... more animal hair (and less cleaning)/higher temperatures/higher humidity/less airflow... who knows
4> Your friend's electricity may not be as clean as yours.  Electrical interference can also be a big factor in power supply life, especially the cheap ones.

Basically what I am saying is that you get what you pay for.  Comparing one cheap power supply to another and judging a vendor based on such is not a fair comparison, as cheap power supplies are always 'crap shoots' to begin with.  It's obvious you've made up your mind about TigerDirect and I'm not going to change that... nor would I expect you to change your mind based on a couple of sentences said on a bulletin board... nor would I *want* you to choose a vendor that makes you feel uncomfortable.. but to badmouth a company because of only what you described I feel just simply isn't fair.. especially when you come out with such broad statements as "I would be extremely wary of anything from Tiger Direct".

If I were to improve your statement, it would be something such as "I would be extremely ware of purchasing ANY computer hardware based on price alone.  When it comes to 'cheap' parts, more often than not you get what you pay for regardless of vendor".

Tequila, I should add that I once purchased a SystemMAX from TigerDirect several years ago.  It was an old Socket-7 AMD Athlon system and lasted me for many years problem free.  I ended up giving it away as a gift after about four years because I built a new system.  You are correct in the fact that it WAS XP, and was setup with FAT32 but that was easy enough to correct.  Also for the "average" computer user, especially back then, NTFS offered few options that would actually benefit them, and could potential make things many times more complicated.  I don't blame them one bit for making that decision.

I will be honest though, I haven't used TigerDirect for anything significant for about two years due to two case/power supply combos I purchased were DOA.  This was a couple of years ago and TD promptly mailed me PREPAID UPS shipping labels to slap on the boxes to ship them back with and they issued me a full refund (including shipping).  When I purchased a third power supply locally, it failed to work either.  It ends up I had a defective motherboard instead!  Their customer service was extremely friendly and efficient, but since then I haven't really seen them offer any 'deals' that I was crazy about.  It seems as if NewEgg is always just a "tad" bit cheaper.

Offline TilDeath

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 12:37:54 AM »
Hi Guys,

I'm looking to build a pc for AH. This will be the first PC I've built in 10+ years, so I could really use some help evaluating the different options.

My goals for running AH:
- 1920 x 1080 (will run on tv)
- 4x FSAA
- good visibility/distance in game
- 50 FPS minimum average (with say 10 planes in area, forward view)

I don't intend to use it for anything other than AH at this point, because I have limited time for gaming, and don't know of any other games out right now that would be more fun.

I made a tentative list, based on this thread, and upon a this Tom's Hardware guide:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-core-i3-overclock-system-builder,2809.html

I was going to ask folks to take a look and see if they see anything stupid. In particular, I don't know if I need that (relatively) expensive memory, in this setup. I don't know squat about video cards, other than what I've kind of picked up reading in here the last couple days. Well that's what I was going to ask, but not Sandy Bridge CPUs were announced, it seems like I should probably hold off, and retool everything for a sandybridge i5? On the other hand, I've got some serious withdrawal going on here...

For budget, I was trying to keep it under $800, which seemed pretty reasonable for a good pc for AH. I have to get win7 and some controller hardware as well, and it all adds up rather quickly... I would go over a bit to get a better processor if that was the best thing to do, or I'd get a cheaper processor and a better video card if that made sense.

Here's what I came up with:
      Motherboard
   
      Asus Sabertooth 55i
      LGA 1156, Intel P55 chipset
   
      $147
   
      http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-P7P55D-1156-Intel-Motherboard/dp/B002ZVAXPE
   
      Processor
   
      Intel Core i3-550
      3.2 GHz, Dual-Core, 4 MB L3 Cache
   
      $125
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115065&Tpk=Intel%20Core%20i3-550
   
      CPU Cooler
   
      Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
   
      $30
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&Tpk=Cooler%20Master%20Hyper%20212%20Plus
   
      Memory
   
      GeIL Black Dragon 4 GB (2 x 2 GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3-1333
      Dual-Channel Desktop Memory Kit
   
      $95
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144447&cm_re=GeIL_Black_Dragon-_-20-144-447-_-Product
   
      Graphics
   
      1 GB ATI card
   
      $140
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125309
   
      Hard Drives
   
      WD caviar blue 250 GB SATA 7200 RPM
   
      $45
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136161
   
      Optical
   
      ASUS DVD-RW
   
      $20
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
   
      Case
   
      NZXT Gamma
   
      $40
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061&Tpk=NZXT%20Gamma
   
      Fans
   
      2 x APEVIA CF12S-BK 120 mm
   
      $8
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835228010&Tpk=APEVIA%20CF12S-BK%20120%20mm
   
      Power
   
      Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650 W
      ATX12V, EPS12V, 80 PLUS Certified
   
      $90
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=Corsair%20CMPSU-650TX%20650%20W
   
      OS
   
      Windows 7 Home Premium OEM
   
      $100
   
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754&cm_re=windows_7_OEM-_-32-116-754-_-Product
   
      
   
      Subtotal
   
      $840
   
   




You have a SATA 3 enabled Motherboard and using a SATA II hard disk.  If your planning on building yourself, send me a PM with your total budget and I will send you a parts list that will all compliment each other.

TD

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 01:03:44 AM »
You have a SATA 3 enabled Motherboard and using a SATA II hard disk.  If your planning on building yourself, send me a PM with your total budget and I will send you a parts list that will all compliment each other.

TD

A regular hdd doesn't come close to saturating sata2 bandwith so that is not a problem. If you disagree, show benchmarks. Oh and btw, no straw man arguments like burst data rate, that 8-64mb cache data is 99% cases already on OS fs cache anyway ;)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 02:21:13 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 03:42:11 AM »
A regular hdd doesn't come close to saturating sata2 bandwith so that is not a problem. If you disagree, show benchmarks. Oh and btw, no straw man arguments like burst data rate, that 8-64mb cache data is 99% cases already on OS fs cache anyway ;)

would it be wrong to not get the sata2 hdd?

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline TilDeath

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2011, 04:20:59 AM »
A regular hdd doesn't come close to saturating sata2 bandwith so that is not a problem. If you disagree, show benchmarks. Oh and btw, no straw man arguments like burst data rate, that 8-64mb cache data is 99% cases already on OS fs cache anyway ;)
Why don't you buy my computer building and support business from me since you surely have the greater knowledge.  :)  This way you can do the builds I do for the guys here making about 8 bucs an hour after its all said and done as a service to the players.

TD
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 04:23:54 AM by TilDeath »

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 06:52:07 AM »
Why don't you buy my computer building and support business from me since you surely have the greater knowledge.  :)  This way you can do the builds I do for the guys here making about 8 bucs an hour after its all said and done as a service to the players.

TD

Heh, please show me the benchmark validating your claim like I said :) Your status as a retailer also puts anything you say under scrutiny as I'm sure you understand. Commercial interest may develop into interesting arguments!

PS: Do remember this is a HTC open BB so your claims can and should be contested when necessary. If Skuzzman says that your sayings can't be argumented then I'll be happy to stop.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 07:13:55 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2011, 07:03:01 AM »
would it be wrong to not get the sata2 hdd?

semp

No, not wrong at all. But saying something to the likes of: Gosh you made a boo-boo there, now let me direct you to my business - is *if* no more than marginal gains can even theoretically be made. Which is why I asked for a benchmark.

Since the specification indicates no real world gains and benchmarks I've seen point to 0.5% max differences on average. And that amounts for margin of error. SATA3 gives gain only on burst transfer rate but that applies only to the data already written to the internal cache of the hdd (2-64mb typically).

I'm raising arguments due to the fact that it seems people here are starting to take anything TD says as the undisputable truth while in fact he has a commercial interest invested in anything he says in here. First the very misleading pci-e ssd vs sata3 thread and now this? :)

Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Warty

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Re: Optimum Budget Aces High System
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2011, 11:12:13 PM »
Thanks TD! I'll probably take you up on the offer. I have been doing some more reading on the sandy bridget CPUs, it seems like a good idea to wait and build a system around the i5 2500K. I can spend the next month getting some ancient controllers working again...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:24:17 PM by Warty »