Author Topic: Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?  (Read 4780 times)

Offline mrfish

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2001, 07:09:00 PM »
it may not be as uber as everyone holds BUT i can't believe that the nik's abilities are 100% pure social construction.

people flock to it for a reason - if it is really on an exactly equal performance plane with the other turner a/c then why is it so popular? because it does offer an advantage. not "the campfire legends of yor", but a subtle and discernable edge in most dogfight scenarios.

why worry now though? when the advantage is smoothed out (1.08) things should be fine. if not - then complain.

if people don't see anything with a clear advantage they will move on. those that still feel good in the nik will stay there but the numbers should seek a stable ratio naturally so it shouldn't be any concern.

i don't think the la7 or spit offer a clear enough advantage to draw everyone like the nik did. i have high hopes actually.

i've seen a lot more variety lately anyway. i'm still calling for voluntary dispersion instead of flock behavior so we don't have to see any more of these threads.      :)

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]

Offline Karnak

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2001, 07:17:00 PM »
Urchin,

Then it looks like you exagerated this statement quite a bit:
 
Quote
190D9 vs. N1K2- N1K2 wins 65%

If you went 8 and 1 afainst the N1K2 in the Fw190D-9 it sure doesn't look like a 65% victory rate for the N1K2.

As far as the aircraft like the Bf109F-4 and Fw190A-5 go, I would hope the N1K2 would have the advantage, its a late 1944 aircraft.  Do you think Japanese aircraft suck or something?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, which aircraft, that has a realistic shot at it, would you like to be the top dog?

I myself am quite content for it to be the N1K2.  It is an aircraft that punishes you for making a mistake by killing you.  Almost all aircraft in AH can outrun it and that mean that, unless it has a major altitude advantage, it can't control the fight.  If its not the N1K2, it'll go to the Spitfire MkIX (not much of a change) or the P-51D or La-7.  With the P-51D and La-7 almost no aircraft will be able to withdraw. They will completely dominate the fight in the areas that give an aircraft control of the fight. With one of the very fast aircraft being the most common the entire arena will be forced to speed up because the slower aircraft will be revealed for the death traps that they are.

I think that the N1K2 makes a great top dog aircraft.  Its fun for beginners, but its so slow that most aircraft can control the fight if flown right.

I cannot think of an aircraft better suited to the top spot, from the point of view of both those who fly it and those who fly against it, than the N1K2-J Shiden-Kai.

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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Offline Urchin

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2001, 07:20:00 PM »
Well, I worked out the kill % for the planes in Tour 15 (the tour before the C-Hog got perked).

Total (including bombers, GV's)- 169,563 kills.

F4U-1c: 16.3%
N1K2: 7.64%
Spit9: 6.92%
La7: 4.32%

Once you discard the bombers and GV kills, you are left with 127,903 kills.

F4U-1c: 14.69%
N1K2: 8.15%
Spit9: 7.37%
La7: 4.47%

So, fighter to fighter, the N1K2 is 3% away from where the C-Hog was when it got perked.  Including the bombers and GV totals, it is about 4% away.

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

Offline Urchin

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2001, 08:20:00 PM »
It's hard for me to say really.  If I had to pick, I'd say the Spitfire IX.  Just about every plane I fly can get away from one if you get in trouble, which I can't say for the La7 or N1K2.  

I wouldn't mind seeing the P51 take the top spot, but the La7 is so superior to it I doubt that it would ever happen.

Offline Karnak

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2001, 08:37:00 PM »
Urchin,

I really don't see a difference between the Spit IX and N1K2 save that the Spit is faster higher up.

The P-51D being the most popular would probably make me cancel my account, as would the La-7.  They would render all the aircraft I like dead meat. They outclimb, outrun, out dive every aircraft I like and they out turn many of the aircraft I like.  I already think that the MA is too fasr, I'd hate to see it dominated by one of those.

Fly the P-51D a bit.  The thing is incredible.
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Offline Urchin

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2001, 09:46:00 PM »
I flew it a little bit last tour, I think I went 7 and 1 in it.  But my record against it was a TON better than my record against the N1K2... but my 190A8 fetish played a large role in my crappy record vs. the N1K2.  Apparently, the N1K2 is just to much of a target, the A8 doesn't have a chance  :)- no matter how much I wish it would.

The only thing the P51D has going for it is its speed.  I generally don't have much trouble with it in a 109 or 190, I can see how it would be a pain in the butt if you were flying a Spitfire though.  Maybe you'll get lucky and get the Spit XIV or F. 21- they'd be the instant favorites of the arena, but if HTC ain't going to perk the N1K2 then there is no reason to perk the Spit XIV or F. 21.  In fact, I wish they'd unperk the C-Hog.  I'd get pissed at seeing all the C-Hogs around, but they are way easier to kill than N1K2s are.

Offline Karnak

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2001, 11:13:00 PM »
Urchin,

I disagree.

I can run from an N1K2, I can't run from an F4U-1C, Spitfire MkXIV or Spitfire F.21.

I honestly don't want to see the Spitfire MkXIV in AH at this point, let alone the F.21.

I think the MA is already unpleasantly fast.  I certainly don't want it to be faster.
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Offline DanielMcIntyre

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2001, 02:03:00 AM »
does this sound like our n1k2-j?

"The Shiden Kai was to become perhaps the best all-round fighter to be operational in the Pacific theatre. It was fast, powerful, and maneuverable, and was well-armed and armored. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Shiden-Kai was the equal of any Allied fighter, even the later models of the P-51 Mustang which began to appear over Japan in the spring of 1945. In one notable action, on February 16 1945 over Yokohama, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J single-handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shot down four of them before the rest were forced to break off combat and return to their carrier. "

yep  :(


N1K Info #1
N1K Info #2
N1K Info #3
N1K Info #4

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Zygote ]

Offline MadBirdCZ

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2001, 02:45:00 AM »
Hmm just checked  stats for last tour... Got kill death ratio in my favorite ride (Typhoon)  5:1 against N1K  :) I agree that there is something wrong about them and that a lot of dweebs are flying them but Im not affraid of them  :D

Offline Karnak

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2001, 03:27:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zygote:
In one notable action, on February 16 1945 over Yokohama, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J single-handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shot down four of them before the rest were forced to break off combat and return to their carrier.

Zygote,

This story has been shown to be false.  It has been repeated so often that it has come to be generally accepted as true, but it isn't.

The other data you posted is pretty good.  The N1K2-J was a very, very good low altitude fighter and in the hands of a capable pilot would hand a Hellcat its arse. It was tough and manuverable with tremendous firepower and good speed.
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Offline DanielMcIntyre

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2001, 05:29:00 AM »
ahh darn propagandarists!!!!!   :D

Offline Ripsnort

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2001, 07:25:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
I told you all... no one paid a lick of attention... nor did they acknowledge what I said... Of course though, I was wrong.

I mean, when the F4U-1C was perked I said that the next plane or planes with perceived (real or not) advantages over what you fly will be the next in the hunt.

Of course I was repeatedly told I was wrong and that wouldn't happen because perking the F4U-1C would diversify the arena.

Yes...... well I told you so.
-SW

I was with you in this prediction as well.  Remember, I was the vocal one when the Chog guns were way overmodeled, then HTC toned them down.  Most were happy, but a couple months afterward when the Navy hit AH, it became a popular plane due to AC carriers..a vocal few who couldn't 'handle' taking on a Chog whined, and now we are to our 2nd plane possibly being either perked or FM altered. (sigh)

Offline Halo

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2001, 08:14:00 AM »
The debate over perk planes and uber planes will never end because this is the first place where every sort of matchup, historical and fantasy, can be done.  

High alt interceptors, dogfighters, fighter bombers and everything in between can be matched to see which dominates, but even then victory still depends on the individual battle circumstances.

Usually numbers and speed still prevail, but sometimes a solo artist will demonstrate amazing mastery, e.g., a 109 orbiting an enemy base and picking off challengers one by one, and still somehow managing to evade vengeful pursuers and land all those kills.

I vote for everyone being allowed to use every plane free, including the perk ones, at least a couple times each tour.  The arenas are large enough that everyone should be able to find the kind of fight they want somewhere.  Of course, that's pretty much what we have in the present perk system, except newbies might find it difficult to accumulate enough points soon enough.  

After awhile, it's easy to get tired of the uber planes and gain more satisfaction with one 202 victory than with 10 Niki wins. Every fight is different, and as in all sports, the most important thing is the NEXT action, not the last one.    

The evolution of the combat arena should provide the more historical matchups some people prefer while the main arena teems with unlimited power fantasy matchups of every persuasion.  

These perk threads once again illustrate the terrific job Aces High has done in modeling aircraft many of us had no or little knowledge of until we got a chance to actually try them out.  Marvelous education as well as great fun.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2001, 08:22:00 AM »
Halo, I'm with ya...as Toad says, "Fly what you like, like what you fly..."  If ya don't like getting shot down by such and such type A/C that dominates yours, then by God go get the same type of A/C and go back and shoot him down with his own plane.  :)  MA is for ALL plane types, CT, TOD, Snap Shots and Scenarios like this are for limited plane sets.

Offline Animal

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Which plane will the N1K2 pilots go to?
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2001, 08:24:00 AM »
THE GOVERMENT!