Author Topic: Overhaul missions  (Read 752 times)

Offline Vudak

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Overhaul missions
« on: November 29, 2010, 04:43:35 PM »
Aces High is a vibrant game that offers players many avenues for enjoyment, but its in-game missions are much more bland than they could be.  Indeed, every mission follows the same set structure:

* Plane choice
* Load out
* Home Base

Once the mission is launched, all incentive for following the planner’s design is, essentially, voluntary and imaginary.  Since perk points are independent of missions, and text buffer “success” is defined as kills or damage, rather than completing your mission, players have no incentive, for example, to merely drive away an interceptor from the bomber stream.  Instead, the individual is “better off” by chasing down the interceptor and killing it.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, as people should not be forced to play a certain way, but I do think the game would be more fun and fresh for more people if this were not the only option to reach quantifiable success.

I propose overhauling the in-game mission editor.  When someone attempts to plan a mission, the very first box they should check is either:

[Default]

or

[Advanced]

Checking “default” will bring the planner to exactly what we have today, with the same exact functions and outcomes.  People won’t be forced to learn new things if they don’t want to.

However, should a person wish to, they could check “advanced,” and this would bring up a new clipboard screen.  On this screen would be a set of options for the type of mission to be planned. 
For example:

[  ] Bombing Run
[  ] Base Capture
[  ] Fighter sweep
[  ] Naval attack
[  ] Area Defense
[  ] Ground Assault
[  ] Resupply Run

The basic idea is that a mission planner commits to a mission objective and a set of victory conditions to determine if the objective is met before it is launched.  All players who participate in the mission receive a perk point reward based on how well those victory conditions are met (as opposed to the current system wherein they receive perk points based on their individual actions regardless of the mission).

For example, let’s pretend you check “Bombing Run.”  This would then bring up an additional list of options.  These options would each be arrowed and open a drop-down menu.  By selecting “Bombing Run,” the following drop-down menus might be available:

* Escorted?  (Yes/No)

* Primary target? (A scrollable drop-down list of the various available targets—may need to break this into further subdivisions to avoid a truly massive list)

* Secondary target? (Another scrollable drop-down, in case the primary target is destroyed, etc., before the mission reaches it).

*Acceptable Bomber Casualties? (0 – 100% in increments)

*Acceptable Escort Casualties? (0 – 100% in increments)

Selecting “100%” for either would make the mission victory conditions easier to accomplish, but would also result in less reward (perk points).  I do not know the exact formula that should be used, but for illustrative sake, let’s use the following:

IF acceptable bomber casualties=%0 THEN perk reward=10
IF acceptable bomber casualties=%50 THEN perk reward=5
IF acceptable bomber casualties=%100 THEN perk reward=1

In this example, escort fighters would not be required to shoot down a single enemy plane to get a reward.  They would merely need to get the bombers home (determined when the last living bomber lands).  If they did get kills, they would get more perk points, but even the worst shot would get a reward for being part of a successful team.

A similar formula could be used to determine how many points are given for destruction.  First of all, you’d select the target.  Let’s pretend it is a city.  Second of all, you would sign up for desired damage (1 – 100%).  The less damage you attempt to inflict, the less points you can receive (again, in this example, 1 – 10).  You could also stand to gain more points by attempting to take out more difficult targets (more for a HQ than for a front line base’s city, for example).

This same basic idea could be applied to the other mission types.  A fighter sweep, for example, might have the following sub-options:

* Sectors? (Allow the planner to select up to four or so)
* Primary alt? (0 – 5,000 feet, 5,001- 10,000 feet, 10,001 – 15,000 feet, and so on)
* Secondary alt? (Same as above)
* Primary Target? (Bombers or fighters)
* Secondary Target? (Reversed)
* Acceptable Casualties? (0 – 100%)

In this instance, the amount of perk points awarded could be based on:

1. That a primary target was destroyed
2. That actual casualties were at or under the acceptable limit
3. The relative danger of the sectors (ie, what is the friendly to enemy ratio?  Bad odds would give better perks and encourage people to seek combat).

All other mission types would follow a similar outline specified to its type.

In essence:

You select your target, victory conditions, and acceptable casualties ahead of time.  IF you accomplish these victory conditions, and do so while keeping your casualties to an acceptable percentage, THEN you get perk points.  IF you do not, you do not lose anything, but you do not gain those perk points.


Forseen Issues

The greatest issue that I can foresee is the usual problem with “spies,” or other players out to ruin everyone else’s fun.  The default system helps (but doesn’t cure) this problem by keeping objectives secret until the mission has launched, and having to sign up for a specific objective prior to launch may make disruptive behavior easier.

My solution is to allow the option make missions private, and allow access to only certain squads, should the planner choose.  Another drop down menu with the squad names would be present, and if they are selected, a player in that squad would see the following message in their text buffer:

“SYSTEM: Vudak has invited 71 Squadron to a mission.”

This would notify players in that squadron that there is a mission available to them.  They would go to the normal missions tab on their clipboard to join it, should they so choose.

A player could also opt to have the mission open for all to see.  Perhaps a drop down menu for “Private?” (Yes or no)

I believe this system could:

1. Promote combat, by giving an added incentive for fighter sweep missions against bad local odds;
2. Promote replayability, by adding new challenges a player could voluntarily impose on himself;
3. Decrease the need for a large group to gang up on one plane to try and be the one to shoot it down, because with certain missions perk points could be gained without needing to shoot anything down;
4. Promote attacks on a wider range of targets (instead of being worthless, or merely a “qualitative” challenge, attacks on strat could now have a quantitative measurement of achievement).  This could also have the effect of decreasing hording, since taking bases or shooting down planes would no longer be the only visible measures of success.
5. Help newer and less skilled players feel like they are a useful part of a team
6. Promote more authentic WW2 combat (though NOT require it).

No one would be forced to do anything, and no one would be punished for refusing to do something.  This would simply increase one’s options while not taking away a single part of the traditional game play for anyone else.

Thoughts?
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline jolly22

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 06:03:21 PM »
I love this idea, would make evening missions sooo much more fun! :aok

+1

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Offline Bannock

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 06:38:50 PM »
Great write up...  And I agree 110% this would put some new 'oomph' into mission designs.
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Offline fbWldcat

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 06:43:21 PM »
Maybe Knights will actually join missions if this is implemented.
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Offline 1sum41

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 08:22:38 PM »
i really like this idea :aok

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 08:40:11 PM »
anybody heard of the kiss rule? (keep it simple s...)  other than having an invite only option for the mission, there's no benefit.  we are asked to make so many choices that by the time, we finished the mission is already done and over with.  but for the sake of argument.

-how many points will the guy who got killed defending the buffs/objective get?  If he does his best but dies early in the mission?
-how will the game determine if actually moving away to stop some guy from getting alt is actually a good moveor a bad move?
-sometimes diving down on some guys getting altitude and giving them the option of chasing a low fighter or chase some high buffs is actually a good defensive maneuver.  will the guy be penalized for this?

so many other other scenarios that will penalize some guy for actually doing the right thing.  Or actually I can just follow the mission, not be part of it and get full perks.

would be nice to have missions like the ones you suggest but that only happened back in the aw days, when you could coordinate a 300 plane mission with another country and bomb the hell out of the other.

difference between aw and ah is that in aw you got a sort of pride in actually accomplishing a mission.

here we just concentrate on the fun part of the game.  we dont really care if the mission is successful or not, but whether we had fun in the mission.  not many people will complain if the mission didnt even make it to the dar ring, but will be happy as heck if they had fun getting there.

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Offline jimson

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 08:43:35 PM »
+1

Be great to set up such missions in advance in the AvA.

I'd also like to see a text box for a short mission briefing.

Offline Pigslilspaz

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 02:52:35 AM »
+1

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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 02:58:47 AM »
I see a problem with your "Acceptable losses" Portion. I love the idea, all of it, but I do believe that the # of perk points received should also be based on # of players in the mission. This way, 2 people alone can't run a quick little "mission", and return home with (referring to your illustrative ex.) 10 perk points for not dying, rinse, repeat, and several hundred perks gained in a few hours of repetition.

Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline thndregg

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 07:51:33 AM »
I see a problem with your "Acceptable losses" Portion. I love the idea, all of it, but I do believe that the # of perk points received should also be based on # of players in the mission. This way, 2 people alone can't run a quick little "mission", and return home with (referring to your illustrative ex.) 10 perk points for not dying, rinse, repeat, and several hundred perks gained in a few hours of repetition.



Agree. People will invariably find loopholes to exploit the system, and this is one. Other than that, I think this idea is worth trying. We won't know how it will work until we actually do it.
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Offline Vudak

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 09:48:40 AM »
anybody heard of the kiss rule? (keep it simple s...)  other than having an invite only option for the mission, there's no benefit.  we are asked to make so many choices that by the time, we finished the mission is already done and over with.

How can it be done and over with when you make these choices before the mission actually starts?  Further, the kiss rule is available to people who check "default."


Quote

-how many points will the guy who got killed defending the buffs/objective get?  If he does his best but dies early in the mission?

Only players that land would receive mission-based perk points.  You'd still get regular-based perk points.

Quote

-how will the game determine if actually moving away to stop some guy from getting alt is actually a good moveor a bad move?

If the mission reaches its objectives, I guess you could say it's a good move.  The point is, you, as a group, sign up for a "challenge" prior to the mission's launch.  You understand what the victory conditions are, and you work to achieve them.  All the game cares about is whether or not these objectives were met.

Quote
-sometimes diving down on some guys getting altitude and giving them the option of chasing a low fighter or chase some high buffs is actually a good defensive maneuver.  will the guy be penalized for this?

No one, under this system, would be penalized any more than someone currently setting up a bounce, missing their target, and watching their countryman get the kill.  You can only lose the possibility of gaining new perk points, you can not lose any perk points.

That said, in your example, again--does your action help the mission reach its goal?  If at the end of the mission, your victory conditions are met, then what you did was just fine.

Quote

so many other other scenarios that will penalize some guy for actually doing the right thing. 


Again, no one gets penalized for anything.  Not earning perks is not a penalty.  It is a reality that happens every day every time someone misses a shot.  You have to be part of the mission to get perks

Quote

 Or actually I can just follow the mission, not be part of it and get full perks.

You have to be in the mission to receive perk points, but again, you only get them if the mission reaches its victory conditions.  If it can do that with you doing nothing, great, but given that more ambitious missions will have the possibility of greater perks, and less ambitious missions will yield substantially fewer perks, you probably won't get many for doing nothing.

Quote

would be nice to have missions like the ones you suggest but that only happened back in the aw days, when you could coordinate a 300 plane mission with another country and bomb the hell out of the other.


I didn't fly FR much back then, but 300 plane missions would be double the RR arena limit in AW3.

Quote

difference between aw and ah is that in aw you got a sort of pride in actually accomplishing a mission.


There's still pride for regular missions, but this system would make it a bit more visible.  If your squad spent several squad nights trying to accomplish an extremely difficult mission and finally did, I'd imagine that would be fun for your squad.

Quote

here we just concentrate on the fun part of the game.  we dont really care if the mission is successful or not, but whether we had fun in the mission.  not many people will complain if the mission didnt even make it to the dar ring, but will be happy as heck if they had fun getting there.


And that is still an option for you.  If you don't want to sign up for one of these advanced missions, you don't have to.  If you don't want to take them seriously, you don't have to.  This wouldn't force you to change the way you play your game.  It would only give you and others more options.

This idea is heavily inspired by Combat Tour.  It borrows much from it while leaving the AI bots and (no offense HTC) arcade player upgrades behind.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Vudak

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Re: Overhaul missions
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 09:55:42 AM »
I see a problem with your "Acceptable losses" Portion. I love the idea, all of it, but I do believe that the # of perk points received should also be based on # of players in the mission. This way, 2 people alone can't run a quick little "mission", and return home with (referring to your illustrative ex.) 10 perk points for not dying, rinse, repeat, and several hundred perks gained in a few hours of repetition.



That's a fair point, Eskimo.  I do believe the "ease" scale of getting acceptable losses based on player # resembles a bell curve, though, so someone with better math skills than me should come up with the formula ;)

I will say one thing however:

It is already possible to get massive perks in a few hours of repetition, but people voluntarily choose NOT to attempt it.  Every day, we make choices that hurt our perk point possibilities in the name of fun, history, or anything else (for example, taking a 51D instead of a B).  There's nothing wrong with that, and there's also nothing wrong with "exploiting" the game, taking out an early war bird all night, and racking up the perks.

I do see your point though, I'm just saying.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group