better to buy major brand name machine or build?

[Greese]

I have to totally agree with Lephturn.  

However, I will put in my own $.02

I bought a Dell, was able to put in pretty much what I wanted (go to the webpage, and customize your computer, or call them.  I found them to be very helpful and knowledgeable.  WAY different than your average boxed computer company).  It has been running pefectly for almost five years now.  It doesn't even crash ever.  It has run so well, I bought another a few months ago.  Sure, my company paid for it, so I couldn't build it myself, and DELL is, in my opinion, the finest computer you can buy.  My advice is, if you are going to buy a boxed computer, go with Dell.  They put top-end components in their machines, you can pretty much put what you want in there, they will last forever.  I opened my new machine up when I got it home, and it is very nice inside.  Lots of expansion slots (no PCI, though who needs them anymore) lots of room for more memory (I got 256 megs) the case is excellent, everything is great.  I would say, though, that you do need to re-format the hard drive so you get the junk off of it.  Dell sends all of the software, so it's very easy to re-install only what you want.  I can't say enough good things about dell.  You do pay for them, though, and that's where you need to decide if it's possible you have enough knowledge to trust that you will make smart desicions when purchasing components.  You will save loads of money, but you need to be careful to get quality components that aren't going to fizz on you in a year, or sooner.  It is not worth the money you save if it just craps out all of the time.  
If you do end up buying a boxed computer out of a store, I really do not think you will get a good deal, period.  You will get screwed, either by paying too much, or with crappy components.  The day is gone where you can go out and buy a good machine off the shelf.
Good Luck!
-Greese

[BaneX]

 

Banex: nothing stops you from installing another OS even to a brand computer.

MrSid.. I've got an HP pavilion box that came loaded with windows ME. HP has done something with the Hard Drive that will not allow any other operating system onto it except the ME that came with the computer. I've formatted, Fdisked, you name it I've tried just about everything I can think of to get 98 on there. If you fdisk and then format.. there is a file of some sort about 4 megs in size on there with garbage characters for a name. And yes I thought it muight be a virus so I got the latest updates for anti-virus and checked.. nope wasn't that either.

If you can find an HP pavilion xl844 and get windows 98 to go on it let me know... I'd much rather have 98 than ME.

Bane
13th TAS

Forgot to add.. in the online documents at HP it even states that it will only accept Windows ME. REad this after many headaches tryin to get the other on there lol.

[This message has been edited by BaneX (edited 04-12-2001).]

[TheWobble]

 

MrSid.. I've got an HP pavilion box that came loaded with windows ME. HP has done something with the Hard Drive that will not allow any other operating system onto it except the ME that came with the computer. I've formatted, Fdisked, you name it I've tried just about everything I can think of to get 98 on there

lo-level it.

[Ghosth]

Ammo, if Ozark & I can build machines so can you! Just take the time to do the research ahead of time. Pick the componants carefully,
and if in doubt ask.

Also lots of company's on the net will sell bare bones systems. You pick the Mboard,cpu, & how much ram. They put it into a case, and test it, then ship it. IT arrives, you drop in video, sound, hd, etc and voila.  

[BaneX]

Do I really want to lo-level format an IDE hard drive... would do it if I could be sure of not damaging the drive.. Don't have the cash right now to replace it.

And where can I find the files I need to do a lo-level format.. I don't have those kinds of utilities.

Bane
13th TAS

[TheWobble]

 

Do I really want to lo-level format an IDE hard drive... would do it if I could be sure of not damaging the drive

No it will not harm it, I have done it do dozens in every size and brand i can think of, when i got my new 27gb drive and windows did not install correctly and I had to format, I did a lo-level and as usual, no harm done..

ya see your commin format doesent really delete the data on the disk..it just IGNORES it sort of...kinda forgets its there and overwrites it.. some companies are starting to sneak crap onto drives that are not deleted with normal formats

A lo-level actually REMOVES the data and the hard disk, it is a TRUE format is returned to the condition it was in out of box..even before Dell/HP/Compaq got a hold of it.

the only way a lo-level can damage a disk is if you lose power in the middle of it or turn off yer machine...but there is even software to recover that now.

Lo-leveling is very SAFE and EFFECTIVE.

look it up and read a bit about it if you are unshure

BTW there are lots of programs out there specifically designed to lo-level certin brand drives..these are good to get, but a generic proggy will probably work just as well.

 

[Eagler]

Packard Bell or Bust  

Eagler

[-ammo-]

I appreciate the good advice from everyone. I think I will build..or have someone build the machine

Looking at parts..seems its still gonna cost me a bunch consindering the quality of parts I want Mnoitor..$400, Vid Card..$260, Speakers..$120.. Processor...not sure what a Pentium 4 cost but gotta be expensive

ammo

[Ozark]

Ammo....I just went through the same thing...should I buy or build? Go with the T-Bird CPU and forget the P-4....you won't be sorry.

Here are the links when I asked the same questions:

Building my first PC
Building my first PC..Part2

I had a blast building it and learned a lot too.   Plus, I have a kick prettythang machine that is easy to upgrade too.

Ozark

[This message has been edited by Ozark (edited 04-13-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

My systems in the past were built from scratch by a small computer business that went out of business about 3 years ago, ever since, I've been doing stuff myself...

I started out small, upgrading components, trading, swapping, etc.  Learning more and more each day, especially with the help of this board!  The only thing I haven't done is install my own HD or Mobo.  I'm slowly working up to that.  Next year I plan to build my own system from scratch, basically take a new chip/mobo combo with new HD, and use my existing components (sound card, modem, vid card, CD rom, floppy)...I have a friend that for some Guiness and a good steak can hold my hand doing this.

Price watch is a great website for cost conservatives like me.  I've bought some stuff from them lately, and again, this board helped direct me to them!

[bloom25]

<begin rant mode>

Don't let anybody convince you to buy a P4.  Do not be swayed by those stupid "blue men."  Trust me, that's about the only thing that Intel processors have over AMD anymore; that is better marketing.

A 1.2 Tbird will blow the doors off a 1.5 P4 in 90% of applications.  About all the p4 ever wins on is Quake 3 (by a few FPS), and Flask Mpeg 4 encoding.  Everything else will be won by the Athlons.

The p4 also has a dump truck full of other issues that would keep me from recommending it at this point.  The main one being that the socket the current P4s fit in will be discontinued very soon.  This means current P4 users will not be able to upgrade.  (P4's in the current style will be the 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.7, and MAYBE the 2.0.)  By then the socket will have changed and hopefully Intel will "fix" the P4 to the white paper specifications and make it as fast as it should be.

Other reasons for not buying a P4 include the need for a special: Case, RAM, power supply, & MB design.

To top it all off, they are slower and cost far more than the Athlons.

Intel knows, unfortunately correctly, that the average consumer equates clock speed alone with the performance of a processor.  To this end they basically built what amounts to a 1 liter 3 cylinder Geo metro engine that can rev up to 10000 rpm, as opposed to the big beefy big block Chevy 454 that is the Athlon.  Even though the Athlon doesn't "rev" as high, it's much more powerful than that Geo.  (Even a 1 Gig P3 can beat the 1.3 and 1.4 P4s in more than 1/2 the benchmarks.)

<end rant mode   >

Oh yeah, back on topic, have you or someone else build you an Athlon Thunderbird system.  



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[-ammo-]

Thx Oz, I am up for it, and am now starting the "new moster machine fund" at the house

Ok..So does everyone agree that the intel chip is inferior to the KMD chip? I am soo behind the times because I thought that the it was the other way around, I just always thought that the Intel chip was cutting edge, state of the art, etc...

Maybe it is a testament to their multi-million $ marketing campaign

opinions?

ammo

[214thCavalier]

What Bloom said  

[bloom25]

Intel chips are fine and are excellent performers.  AMD has recently managed to catch and surpass Intel recently with their "Athlon" CPU.  The Athlon Thunderbird is just a newer version of that Athlon that has on-die L2 cache and is a socket form factor.

When it comes to the P4 and the Tbird, the 1.2 is about equal the 1.5 P4.  The difference is that the P4 requires special components and is literally 2x the price.  The 1.33 Athlon Tbird IS the most powerful processor available to home PC users.  Sure, you can always find benchmarks that show the P4 as being faster, but the same goes for the Athlon.  In AH the Athlon would win, hands down.  This holds true for most applications, the Athlon is faster by at least 10% or so.

You don't have to take just my word for it, look at:

(Watch for the Unreal Tournament and Expendable benchmarks, they are DX based games like AH.  These 2 would be the closest comparison available between Athlon and P4.  The Athlon will dominate in these 2 benchmarks, I guarantee it.)

The 1.3 & 1.33 Athlons
 http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q1/010322/index.html

You can easily see here what the true story is concerning the P4 and the Athlon.  The Athlon wins most of the benchmarks, and costs less than the P4.

Need more proof, ok.   Here's Tom's Article when the P4 first came out.  
 http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q4/001120/index.html

Notice that the 1.2 Athlon is often able to beat the P4, even when the P4 is overclocked to 1.728 GHz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The 1 gig P3 even beats the P4 @ 1.6 GHz!




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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[bloom25]

Here's the article from Anandtech when the P4 came out.  http://www2.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1360&p=1

Anandtech has been very pro-Intel in the past, but even Anand has a hard time telling anyone to buy a P4.  Make sure you read the whole article.  The P4 consistently loses in all benchmarks except Q3 arena and one particular OpenGl benchmark.  You should also consider that the 1.33 Athlon was not out at the time of this review, so the Athlon is even farther ahead of the P4 at this time.

I can't stress highly enough just how big a mistake it is to buy a P4 right now.  Hypothetically, even if it did perform better than the Athlon (which it doesn't), why would you buy a processor that cannot be upgraded 2 months from now?



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS