Please Identify Which Ammo is Which

[SmokinLoon]

Please identify which ammo is which with regards to the AP rounds.  Thanks to Pyro, we know know that the exact AP round that the Firefly is using.  Granted, we have the armor penetration table to glance at for point blank, 1000, and 2000 yards, but it would still be nice to know which AP round is being used. 

Perhaps someday when the "coading" allows, players will be able to stock their tanks with the different kinds of ammo (while maintaining a historically accurate load out, of course), for a price.  Similar to the "perk the bomb load" war cry that many players have bellowed many times previously in these forums.  AP rounds like the "high velocity discarding sabot" round would command a more pricey perk point/or higher ENY than the standard AP round.

Thanks!   

 

[SmokinLoon]

Please identify which ammo is which with regards to the AP rounds.  Thanks to Pyro, we know know that the exact AP round that the Firefly is using.  Granted, we have the armor penetration table to glance at for point blank, 1000, and 2000 yards, but it would still be nice to know which AP round is being used. 

Perhaps someday when the "coading" allows, players will be able to stock their tanks with the different kinds of ammo (while maintaining a historically accurate load out, of course), for a price.  Similar to the "perk the bomb load" war cry that many players have bellowed many times previously in these forums.  AP rounds like the "high velocity discarding sabot" round would command a more pricey perk point/or higher ENY than the standard AP round.

Thanks!   

I meant for this to get into the "Wish List" forum, my bad.

Also, it'd be nice to be able to see which ammo we have for HE as well. 

Thanks!   

[JunkyII]

Awesome stuff

[jamdive]

In reference to the sherman tank, the historical loadouts for this tank rarely had any of the high quality ammunition that was available at the time for use against heavy armour due to the fact that sherman tank battalions were seldom designated as tank destroyer units. The vast majority of the high quality shells went to the artillary/tank destroyer battalions.

Most of these penetration charts, also, were derived from tests on allied armour. It wasn't discovered until after the campain in Tunisia how skewed these armour values were against the high quality armour of the Tiger.

Another phenomina that plagued most allied anti-tank ammunition was the increased velocitys seemed to do little or no damage at close ranges due to the brittleness of the round. Effectiveness of certain rounds was increased when the ranges increased and only to a certain distance. If you want an interesting read find an arms book that talks about "the shatter gap".

[Cthulhu]

The "shatter gap" you're referring to is due to residual compressive stresses present in the projectile itself due to being "pushed" so violently from the rear when fired. These stresses are reduced to almost zero almost immediately once the round clears the muzzle, but if the target is sufficiently close, these stresses are combined with the even more violent stresses due to target impact, and the round can easily fracture prematurely before penetrating the target.

I've seen similar data for small arms as well. Ex. 5.56mm rds that perform better against helmets, etc. at range than they do up close.

[Pyro]

German tanks use Pzgr39.  T-34's use BR-350A and BR-365.  M4 75mm uses M61.  M4 76mm uses M62.  M8 37mm uses M51.

[waystin2]

Thanks Pyro!

[SmokinLoon]

German tanks use Pzgr39.  T-34's use BR-350A and BR-365.  M4 75mm uses M61.  M4 76mm uses M62.  M8 37mm uses M51.

Thank you for the info!   

Can you comment on the AP and HE for the Sherman Firefly's 17lb'er?  Perhaps also the HE rounds for the M4 75mm, M4 76mm, M8, and LVT-4?  That would be a huge help as well!   

Also, the AP penetration scale for the Panther G (range 0/1k/2k = 178/145/118mm) that is posted in the hanger is more aligned with the lighter and faster PzGr.40 (Armor Piercing Composite Rigid) round, yet the weight and velocity of what is posted (15lbs and 3097fps) is exactly that of the PzGr.39 (Armor Piercing Capped Ballistic Cap) round.  Typo?  The Panther G certainly performs like the AP table provided in the hanger, without a doubt.  Test it multiple times. 

Thanks a many Pyro!!!      

 

[Pyro]

It sounds like you're directly comparing tables listing penetration at 30 degrees from vertical to AH tables which list it at 0 degrees.  Pzgr40 from a Panther at the muzzle and 0 degrees would have a value well beyond 200mm.

[SmokinLoon]

It sounds like you're directly comparing tables listing penetration at 30 degrees from vertical to AH tables which list it at 0 degrees.  Pzgr40 from a Panther at the muzzle and 0 degrees would have a value well beyond 200mm.

Thanks again for the further clarification.

Any chance you could comment on the 17 lb'er, LVT-4, and M4 76mm??? 

Thanks!   

[W7LPNRICK]

Also the HVAP or discarding Sabot rounds usually have lighter projectiles & lose velocity and kinetic energy at distance, so out at the 2500+ lobbing kills are best with standard AP rounds most of the time IMO. I have had my t-34 HVAP bounce off a distant tank and then switch to AP with a more exaggerated arc and kill with that shot. I know...too many variable for that one shot but... 

[SmokinLoon]

Also the HVAP or discarding Sabot rounds usually have lighter projectiles & lose velocity and kinetic energy at distance, so out at the 2500+ lobbing kills are best with standard AP rounds most of the time IMO. I have had my t-34 HVAP bounce off a distant tank and then switch to AP with a more exaggerated arc and kill with that shot. I know...too many variable for that one shot but... 

The HVAP rounds that both of the T34 versions used in AH lose their advantage vs the standard AP round after 1000-1200 yards or so.  If you have impacts vs enemy armor at 1600 yards, your better bet would be to use the standard AP rounds.  Inside 1200 yards though, no tank in AH is safe.  Also, the "exaggerated arc" has far less to do with the actual armor penetration of the standard AP round than does the weight and corresponding kinetic energy it still has upon impact at the longer ranges.   

    

[W7LPNRICK]

The HVAP rounds that both of the T34 versions used in AH lose their advantage vs the standard AP round after 1000-1200 yards or so.  If you have impacts vs enemy armor at 1600 yards, your better bet would be to use the standard AP rounds.  Inside 1200 yards though, no tank in AH is safe.  Also, the "exaggerated arc" has far less to do with the actual armor penetration of the standard AP round than does the weight and corresponding kinetic energy it still has upon impact at the longer ranges.   

    

I knew they lost energy pretty quick, but didn't know is was that short range. I just know from experience that out a ways the HVAP ricochet far easier than AP. Thanks for the specifics.

[SmokinLoon]

I knew they lost energy pretty quick, but didn't know is was that short range. I just know from experience that out a ways the HVAP ricochet far easier than AP. Thanks for the specifics.

No problem.  When you get a chance while in the hanger, if you right click on the tank and then chose "vehicle armor", it will show the AP penetration charts for point blank, 1000, and 2000 yards.  Plus, it also shows the thickness of the vehicles armor as well.  Good stuff.