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Author Topic: 109 nose cannon  (Read 33413 times)

Offline vafiii

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109 nose cannon
« on: January 03, 2011, 05:14:00 PM »
Anyone have any drawings of the 109 engine? I'm curious to see how they were able to run the cannon through the engine block. Couldn't find much on-line on the subject. Thanks.
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Offline Noir

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 05:22:04 PM »
ho and also explain us how is can get damaged from ack fire while the rest of the engine is ok  :D
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 05:39:22 PM »
Quote from: Noir on January 03, 2011, 05:22:04 PM
ho and also explain us how is can get damaged from ack fire while the rest of the engine is ok  :D

or when you get shot from behind and above.....  if hits the cannon, with out hitting the engine or the pilot (the nose cannon is between the pilots legs)? :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:
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Offline Lusche

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 06:02:09 PM »



Here you can see the hollow propeller shaft, through which the gun is firing, the crankshaft is located above.

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Offline redwing7

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 06:06:13 PM »
Lusche,

Looks like that engine is sitting in someones dining room....yours perhaps?  :D
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Offline Lusche

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 06:07:53 PM »
Quote from: redwing7 on January 03, 2011, 06:06:13 PM
Lusche,

Looks like that engine is sitting in someones dining room....yours perhaps?  :D


I don't even have a dining room  :noid
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 06:31:12 PM »
Is that a 20mm or 30mm cannon attached to that DB?


Looks like people have provided you with some of the best visual aids.  As you can see the crankshaft rotates the propeller shaft which is hollow and runs through the entire engine.  On the rear-end of the engine is mounted the cannon that fires through the hollow propeller shaft that runs through the entire block.  From there it's on to the propeller and the hub.  The cannon's barrel sits stationary inside the hollow rotating propeller shaft and the entire cannon assembly is mounted to the engine block.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 06:33:01 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 11:56:15 PM »
K-4 is a 30 in the nose, right?
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Offline Ruah

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 01:46:57 AM »
Some pics to help you if you still don't have it.



This is what it looked like behind the engine - that block thee would have a casing on it which is that block you see betwen your legs when you sit inside the cocpit of the 109.  When you fired that cannon, it must have really been quite a sensation to basically have the gun shooting off between your legs. . . no pun intended.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:51:25 AM by Ruah »
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Offline nrshida

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2011, 02:32:48 AM »
Quote from: Babalonian on January 03, 2011, 06:31:12 PM
Is that a 20mm or 30mm cannon attached to that DB?


Looks like people have provided you with some of the best visual aids.  As you can see the crankshaft rotates the propeller shaft which is hollow and runs through the entire engine.  On the rear-end of the engine is mounted the cannon that fires through the hollow propeller shaft that runs through the entire block.  From there it's on to the propeller and the hub.  The cannon's barrel sits stationary inside the hollow rotating propeller shaft and the entire cannon assembly is mounted to the engine block.

In Luche's photo of the engine in the blue frame it is a 20mm Mg151/20. The shaft that the barrel (or shells in the case of the Mk108) passed through did not rotate, in Luche's cutaway diagram the left side was the place the cannon attached and the right side where the propeller was fitted. The gears you can see at the rear of the engine around the cannon tunnel are the cam drive gears (by way of the supercharger drive). The key is that the crank is on a higher level than the barrel which ran through the vee of the engine (inverted) and the reduction gear makes the hub concentric with the cannon.

I wonder at what distance the gun sight aligned with the shot in the actual aircraft (convergence)? The connector doesn't look adjustable to me.

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Offline Tyrannis

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2011, 04:42:36 AM »
Quote from: Ardy123 on January 03, 2011, 05:39:22 PM
or when you get shot from behind and above.....  if hits the cannon, with out hitting the engine or the pilot (the nose cannon is between the pilots legs)? :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:
:huh  :noid  :bolt:
 
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 04:49:32 AM »
Quote from: Babalonian on January 03, 2011, 06:31:12 PM
Is that a 20mm or 30mm cannon attached to that DB?


Looks like people have provided you with some of the best visual aids.  As you can see the crankshaft rotates the propeller shaft which is hollow and runs through the entire engine.  On the rear-end of the engine is mounted the cannon that fires through the hollow propeller shaft that runs through the entire block.  From there it's on to the propeller and the hub.  The cannon's barrel sits stationary inside the hollow rotating propeller shaft and the entire cannon assembly is mounted to the engine block.

You seem very knowledgeable about this subject.  Wanna come help me work on my Lycoming?  I was thinking  about some "extra" additions...

 :devil
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Offline 321BAR

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 05:37:32 AM »
that is... wow...
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Offline Charge

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 06:41:11 AM »
"I wonder at what distance the gun sight aligned with the shot in the actual aircraft (convergence)? "

IIRC the standard convergence for guns was 450m. The shots went above the sight line at 50m and dropped below at 450m. There's a diagram of it somewhere.

-C+
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Offline vafiii

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 11:18:56 AM »
Great stuff! Thanks!
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