WW1

[321BAR]

Anyone with reasonable stick time in AH WW2 should be competitive in short time in WW1. With no newfangled leverthingies to worry about (flaps, gear, WEP etc) you can concentrate on the basic aviation of it, keeping the wings on in a diving turn and pulling that Dr1 into your sights. Think windsurfing as opposed to sailing a large yacht. So if you need a short break from the main war, there's a place where you can enjoy good company free of whining and personal attacks, where you can let the inner aviator loose, and nobody cares about your rank or score - just how well you fought that last duel.

As a final note, don't let one experience colour your judgement in there. Imagine how many players would stay in the WW2 arenas under those terms..... give it a few tries at different times of the day, meet some of the guys and let 'em know you're taking a first look. I'm fairly sure you'll get a warm welcome and a good introduction 

Agreed completely tusk. Everytime i go there im greeted warmly and i love the guys who fly there. No evil meanies at all in there
...yet H... R..... and V..... from AvA. All i will say...

but honestly, the WWI is a great place to relax for a bit if youre bored from WWII. But without new equipment, WWI has stalled in development in both gameplay and playerbase for now

[SCTusk]

but honestly, the WWI is a great place to relax for a bit if youre bored from WWII. But without new equipment, WWI has stalled in development in both gameplay and playerbase for now

Yep 321BAR that is correct, the development seems to be on pause at the moment. We can only hope that enough players support the arena to convince Head Office that it deserves more work. What form it might take in the future I would hope depends as much on player feedback as Head Office opinion, although player opinion is itself divided as to whether or not the arena should remain as a pure dogfighting venue. Personally at this stage I'd be content to learn that there were plans to add some sort of complexity to the gameplay, either through additional aircraft or  the development of a dynamic world war environment as suggested by the success of the WW2 arenas. I think we have demonstrated with our weekly scenarios that having a goal orientated event doesn't detract from the dogfighting, rather it adds purpose to it. I look forward wistfully to the day when we can escort observation aircraft, run balloon busting missions, attack enemy ground assets etc etc, and I firmly believe these pursuits will invigorate the dogfighting and give it meaning, just as it does in the WW2 arenas.

[321BAR]

Yep 321BAR that is correct, the development seems to be on pause at the moment. We can only hope that enough players support the arena to convince Head Office that it deserves more work. What form it might take in the future I would hope depends as much on player feedback as Head Office opinion, although player opinion is itself divided as to whether or not the arena should remain as a pure dogfighting venue. Personally at this stage I'd be content to learn that there were plans to add some sort of complexity to the gameplay, either through additional aircraft or  the development of a dynamic world war environment as suggested by the success of the WW2 arenas. I think we have demonstrated with our weekly scenarios that having a goal orientated event doesn't detract from the dogfighting, rather it adds purpose to it. I look forward wistfully to the day when we can escort observation aircraft, run balloon busting missions, attack enemy ground assets etc etc, and I firmly believe these pursuits will invigorate the dogfighting and give it meaning, just as it does in the WW2 arenas.

i know im all for it hehe 20th Balloon group would actually be real (although premature in history)

[BnZs]

Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio
D.VII                    1932   2099           0.92
Dr.I                    4293      3316           1.29
F.1                     814      1161           0.70
F.2B                     576      1039           0.55

Totals            7615      7615    

Thus the problem is identified. There are minor problems with the arena, the massive problem is the fact that it is the Dr1 arena for all intents and purposes. This aircraft is modeled not only as the ultimate turner (which it should be, of course) but also as a bullet-sponge that outdives and out-Gs its Allied fighter competitor, this last bit NOT being in harmony with anything I have read about the respective strengths of the Dr1 and Camel.

I believe it is a vicious cycle where the problematic nature of the arena drives people off and its lack of popularity means little spur to further development...

[Yeager]

for the WW1 arena to be a viable arena here is the bottom line:  It needs a more diverse plane set, more dynamics to game play (ie strat, balloons), and some WW1 tanks (why the hell not and who cares if only a dozen were ever made, the tankers need some love too). 

[CptTrips]

Thus the problem is identified. There are minor problems with the arena, the massive problem is the fact that it is the Dr1 arena for all intents and purposes.

That's not the problem.  Its only a symptom of the problem.

The real problem is that the WWI arena only offers completely one-dimensional game-play.  There is only one mission profile available, and what ever particular plane is best at that narrow offering will obviously dominate all others.

The lack of variety in game-play results in the lack of variety of aircraft used.  Planes that might be superior to the DR.I in other roles, are useless.  Only the plane that excels at turn-to-the-death furball at 1k alt is viable.

There is nothing else to do, and no reason to do it.

Regards,
Wab

[Bruv119]

Thus the problem is identified. There are minor problems with the arena, the massive problem is the fact that it is the Dr1 arena for all intents and purposes. This aircraft is modeled not only as the ultimate turner (which it should be, of course) but also as a bullet-sponge that outdives and out-Gs its Allied fighter competitor, this last bit NOT being in harmony with anything I have read about the respective strengths of the Dr1 and Camel.

I believe it is a vicious cycle where the problematic nature of the arena drives people off and its lack of popularity means little spur to further development...

my camel has no problem shooting dem gerry's down it's all about making them fight your fight.  Just like any other plane matchup.  I do agree with the sponge like tendencies of the DR1 though, You have to really saddle them and let it rip.  The F1 is very fragile, 1 or 2 pings and your fuel is gone etc. 

My post merely highlighted the fact that 8000 kills per tour means that it isn't as dead as people might suspect.

[Wiley]

The bunny makes sense.

I think also part of the problem is they started at the top.  They started with the best planes from the war, there's nothing more to look forward to.  Any plane they add that can't compete with the late war monsters (heh) is just going to be a hangar queen.  It's like starting a WWII game with the P51-D, Spit XVI, 190D-9 and 109K-4 as the only choosable planes.  Anything you add to that is going to be pretty much a 'downgrade'.

Unfortunately, to set it up right would require a pretty massive outlay of development effort.  I can't see it being worthwhile.  I don't think there are a lot of people who would prefer to fly ragwings in a similar setup to what we have in the WWII main arenas when the WWII arenas are available.

About the only way a large planset would get used would be if they had an EW/MW/LW setup for WWI and strats/balloons/whatever else they could put in.  Again, massive outlay of effort that I don't think would see much return.

I think it was a neat little diversion that gives people something to do when they want something completely different, and I feel it was worthwhile and fulfilled its purpose by giving them a testbed for the more detailed DM so they could see how it goes in a full arena a little bit before they implement something similar in the WWII arenas without it having a giant impact on the game if something had gone horribly wrong early on.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

My post merely highlighted the fact that 8000 kills per tour means that it isn't as dead as people might suspect.

If it were 80 players getting 100 kills I would agree with you.  

If its 4 players getting 2000 kills, I would call that a dead arena.  

In my definition of MMOG, 4 players average is a failed arena.  (Although I'm sure those 4 devotees will chime in on how much they prefer it that way.)

Regards,
Wab

[Lusche]

[CptTrips]

data

That is a tantalizing chart Lusche.

That shows more pilots having gone into the WWI arena than I would have expected.  Though “Active” may be a debateable term.

My interpretation of that chart?

That looks like to me that ~450 player at some point in time pop in to the WWI for a spin.  However, how often do you see more than 10 players in the arena?  It looks to me that WANT to like it, but there is something that is failing to capture and hold their attention consistently enough to show reasonable arena numbers on a given night.

What would really be interesting to know is how those kills distribute across those ~450 players.  I would guess that a vast majority are concentrated in a small group of regulars and the rest scattered across a large number of tourists who drop in occasionally.

What’s good about that chart is that if only a quarter of those players giving the arena an occasional could be convinced to become nightly regulars, the WWI arena would be ROCKING!

Unfortunately, I suspect the vast majority of those tourists come in and sigh…same 2 fields, same furball, same DR.Is, same pointless moshpit.  They WANT to like it, the arena design just doesn’t excite them enough to come back night after night. IMHO.

[edit: Oh of course that was only for the first 10 week?  If so its probably continued to decline.  Still it suggests there might suggest there are more tourists wanting to catch the WWI fever than actually would be guessed at based on the nightly numbers. ]


Regards,
Wab




 

[Lusche]

That shows more pilots having gone into the WWI arena than I would have expected.  Though “Active” may be a debateable term.

Sorry, should have explained: In my charts an "Active Pilot" is every GameID that has at least one kill or one death during a tour. Someone who just peeks into the arena isn't counted.

The average "active player" in WWI currently spends about 3.5 hours per tour in that arena.  It has much more activity than the AvA btw.

[edit: Oh of course that was only for the first 10 week?  If so its probably continued to decline.  . ]

Not weeks, months. We are currently in WW1 tour 11

[DrBone1]

 It has much more activity than the AvA btw.

I was in AvA for a good hour next thing i know everybody was gone 2 ppl stayed i leave out of the AvA and the WW1 had 27 ppl in it. I am trying to find out what is so great about the AvA Other than the 262 week i had fun with that one 

[Bruv119]

it has much more activity than the AvA btw.

indeed!

AvA is a waste of resources,  better get rid of it or add lots of new content to get the people flooding in  

[CptTrips]

Sorry, should have explained: In my charts an "Active Pilot" is every GameID that has at least one kill or one death during a tour. Someone who just peeks into the arena isn't counted.

Gotcha.  Of couse I was also assuming the tourists would at least fly a sortie and maybe score a kill.

The average "active player" in WWI currently spends about 3.5 hours per tour in that arena.  

Thats pretty anemic IMHO.  Its certainly not lighting people on fire in its current configuration.
Whats the MW arena number?

It has much more activity than the AvA btw.

I'm not sure that a helpful metric.  

Not weeks, months. We are currently in WW1 tour 11

Gotcha.  So there are ~450 interested players  (possibly more not coming in until they hear changes have been made).

If an arena could be configured to interest 1/4 of those into playing nightly, WWI would be a success.

25% conversion is a doable number.

The potential is there.  Its a matter of execution.

,
Wab