Torque or Power ?

[CAP1]

the viper is not a completely dodge built, or powered car. the frame is handbuilt. it's a racing chassis. the engine is a race engine built by an external race shop. i can't remember the name, but my buddy(who has a 96 modded to just over 900hp, and an 06 putting out just over 1200hp) had to have his engine pulled, and sent to that shop for internal repairs. while it was there, he had it modded. lamborghini also did a LOT of the design in this engine.
 
 the corvette on the other hand, is designed, and built by chevy. it is not a race chassis, nor is the engine built outside of chevy.......so you're still comparing apples to oranges.

 that being said, i think this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o&feature=channel

is slightly faster than the viper time you quoted.

 there's also this......you will realize that this vehicle is only .03 of a second slower than that viper time you quoted. so there's a luxury car out there costing less that does this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky8ZiO6ebn0

[Tyrannis]

and another thing unique to the viper was its plant. i motortrend had an article about the viper (made front cover) 2 months ago and it detailed the dodge plant vipers were built at. it was unique in that the viper was the only sportscar still hand crafted (instead of all machines putting it together). you guys should read that article, it was actually a pretty good read.

[Tyrannis]

the viper is not a completely dodge built, or powered car. the frame is handbuilt. it's a racing chassis. the engine is a race engine built by an external race shop. i can't remember the name, but my buddy(who has a 96 modded to just over 900hp, and an 06 putting out just over 1200hp) had to have his engine pulled, and sent to that shop for internal repairs. while it was there, he had it modded. lamborghini also did a LOT of the design in this engine.
 
 the corvette on the other hand, is designed, and built by chevy. it is not a race chassis, nor is the engine built outside of chevy.......so you're still comparing apples to oranges.

 that being said, i think this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o&feature=channel

is slightly faster than the viper time you quoted.

 there's also this......you will realize that this vehicle is only .03 of a second slower than that viper time you quoted. so there's a luxury car out there costing less that does this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky8ZiO6ebn0

the Zr1 will smoke a viper stock yes, but the viper hasent had a major upgrade since 08 i believe?
your comparing an 08 viper to a newly built, redone 10' vette.
plus the zr1 is supercharged, the viper is not. if you wanted to tell which was better you'd atleast need to supercharge the viper then have them go 1v1.

without that supercharger the zr1 would just be a redone z06.

also, yes that sedan is a beast. could most likely smoke a vette too 

[CAP1]

the Zr1 will smoke a viper stock yes, but the viper hasent had a major upgrade since 08 i believe?
your comparing an 08 viper to a newly built, redone 10' vette.
plus the zr1 is supercharged, the viper is not. if you wanted to tell which was better you'd atleast need to supercharge the viper then have them go 1v1.

without that supercharger the zr1 would just be a redone z06.

they;re stock to stock.

 what about the cts? that's an 09.

 wouldn't you be pissed after spending 100k+ on a factory built race car, and get hammered in a stop light challenge by your neighbors wife driving a cadi?

[Tyrannis]

they;re stock to stock.

 what about the cts? that's an 09.

 wouldn't you be pissed after spending 100k+ on a factory built race car, and get hammered in a stop light challenge by your neighbors wife driving a cadi?

i could ask you the same thing. wouldnt you be pissed if your beloved corvette got smoke by some granny driving her cadi from the grocery store&back?

and yes, a stock 10'zr1 will beat a stock 08' viper just because its supercharged. put a supercharger on that viper and the vette would fall behind as usual.

[CAP1]

i could ask you the same thing. wouldnt you be pissed if your beloved corvette got smoke by some granny driving her cadi from the grocery store&back?

and yes, a stock 10'zr1 will beat a stock 08' viper just because its supercharged. put a supercharger on that viper and the vette would fall behind as usual.

i'm not a chevy nut, nor am i nuts over corvettes. i'm someone that works on cars for a living, and i tend to know what cars are and are not.....and what they can and cannot do.

 and the fact still remains that dodge does not build that engine. 

[Strip]

You need to compare Apples to Apples there Tyrannis....

If your gonna do a comparison take a look at the Corvette ZR1 and the Dodge Viper ACR. The Z06 was never meant to compete with a pure bread supercar but you seem to ignore that. You also seem to ignore the fact that Viper costs 50% more than the average Vette.

Take a look at the car that beat the ZR1, its the highest end Viper available with the least amount of creature comforts. The Viper ACR deletes the audio system, rear cabin insulation, tire inflator, and few more parts. In all Dodge says this package deletes about 50lbs from the car and helps performance. This is the car that beat the ZR1, barely I might add, at Nurburgring by 1% of the total lap time.

The Corvette has a faster top speed, more HP (638 vs 600), better interior comforts and true street-ability. The ZR1 does not delete components in the name of saving weight at the cost of comfort. Its suspension will not abuse you on the streets nor will the AC leave you sweating on a hot day like the Viper. The ZR1 is meant to be a car Grandma can drive and yet turn some of the fastest lap times seen at the track for a production car. This is the fastest Vette made too, the base model drives like a Cadillac, something the Viper could only dream of in any trim.

The suspension system is widely considered to even surpass the Z06 model in terms of street manners. The Viper has a mechanically adjusted shock system, you cant change the setup on the fly. The electro-mechanical system on the Vette can be changed from touring to sport with a button. Did I mention the Corvette comes with leather power seats? The Viper that set the record had a fixed seat from Racetech and was not in factory stock condition. The Vette is rumored to have set that time with the AC on and optional interior package.

Dollar for dollar the Corvette Zr1 OWNS the Viper ACR, even heads up the Corvette is far superior in many regards.

Take your go-kart I will settle for a true sports car!

Strip

[Strip]

Your argument that the Corvette is supercharged is not only invalid its asinine! The Viper has a naturally aspirated V10, the Corvette has a supercharged V8.

If your gonna compare just compare in as factory condition on both accounts....none of this well "they have an advantage" crap!

Strip

[MrRiplEy[H]]

That's funny right there.

I could say something about smug diesel sedan-driving "holier than thous" who look down their noses at sports car owners, in an effort to look superior, but I won't...

Umm yea I drive a Jeep due to the climate I live in. A Vette in this climate _is_ purely for compensation since you can't drive it even 6 months on a typical year. In Florida it might be more appealing as an everyday car I guess.

[Reaper90]

and how does a zo6 "stomp" a viper? you have a 8.3 ltr 600hp engine going up against a 406hp engine. at stock the viper would smoke it in a race and on the drag strip.

First, the current Z06 gets 505 hp from a 427 cu in LS7 engine. You (because you don't know of what you speak) quoted the hp numbers for a Z06 model from 6 years ago, the LS6-powered C5 Z06.

stats for z06

<snip>

now the viper's.
 
<snip>

viper has faster acceleration, bigger engine. more horsepower. a higher topspeed. faster on the quarter mile (its average beats the zo6's quickest, and the vipers quickest blows the zo6 away)

 

You do understand that my comparison was between a Z06 and a base Viper SRT-10, NOT the Viper ACR, right?

You do understand that the Viper SRT-10 and the Viper ACR are two different cars, as different as the Z06 is from the ZR1, right?

You're cutting and pasting performance figures and we're not even talking about the same cars. You're quoting times for the $120K Viper ACR (which you cannot even buy anymore if I understand correctly), which I would take the ZR1 over ANY DAY. I'm talking about the base $90K Viper SRT-10 coupe.

FACT: Every review and test of the base Viper and the Z06 puts their performance figures (not the rubbish you posted) at a virtual dead-heat. Their 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking, handling, and stopping figures are all virtually identical. Truthfully the choice between either of these cars is a matter of personal preference. I only say the Z06 "crushes" the Viper (once again, the SRT-10 coupe, NOT the Viper ACR) because for virtually the same price you get virtually identical performance from both cars, but the Z06 is WAY WAY WAY easier to live with and drive on a daily basis. It's just a way better car, at least from the perspective of being the "whole package."

a vette is just too tame for me to take seriously as a sportscar. especially when lined up next to a viper.

completely and totally your subjective opinion, and oddly enough one apparently not based on any real evidence or fact, but solely on your emotion.  

[Big Rat]

Did someone say throw a supercharger on a vette .  Power for dollar you can't beat a GenIII or Gen IV small block chevy.  I was a big block chevy guy for years (sig makes sence now "SB ford guy before that"), now owning two LS motors (FRC and GXP grand prix), I can't say enough good things about them.  IF the 468 in my 69 corvette ever goes, an LS motor will be going in.  The ruler of the roost is the FRC at my house, more power then a ZR1 and still gets 22-24 on the highway.  



the engine


But at some point we are exceeding what anybody needs in a street car, about 500rwhp (about 600 engine) is about the cut off  for anything you will need on the street (new ZR1 is about 520-530rwhp stock tune).  For some reason we always want more though, I keep on telling myself I will be happy at that 550 rwhp mark (533 now, no meth), adding meth injection this summer since I'm way behind where I want my timing, but IAT too high to push it.  Oh well us car guys are nuts anyway

 
BigRat

[Tyrannis]

First, the current Z06 gets 505 hp from a 427 cu in LS7 engine. You (because you don't know of what you speak) quoted the hp numbers for a Z06 model from 6 years ago, the LS6-powered C5 Z06.


 

You do understand that my comparison was between a Z06 and a base Viper SRT-10, NOT the Viper ACR, right?

You do understand that the Viper SRT-10 and the Viper ACR are two different cars, as different as the Z06 is from the ZR1, right?

You're cutting and pasting performance figures and we're not even talking about the same cars. You're quoting times for the $120K Viper ACR (which you cannot even buy anymore if I understand correctly), which I would take the ZR1 over ANY DAY. I'm talking about the base $90K Viper SRT-10 coupe.

FACT: Every review and test of the base Viper and the Z06 puts their performance figures (not the rubbish you posted) at a virtual dead-heat. Their 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking, handling, and stopping figures are all virtually identical. Truthfully the choice between either of these cars is a matter of personal preference. I only say the Z06 "crushes" the Viper (once again, the SRT-10 coupe, NOT the Viper ACR) because for virtually the same price you get virtually identical performance from both cars, but the Z06 is WAY WAY WAY easier to live with and drive on a daily basis. It's just a way better car, at least from the perspective of being the "whole package."

completely and totally your subjective opinion, and oddly enough one apparently not based on any real evidence or fact, but solely on your emotion.  

LOL those were the figures for the viper srt-10, not the acr. :s

and yes its my opinion, opinion backed up by the fact that ive driven both cars.

[Reaper90]

LOL those were the figures for the viper srt-10, not the acr. :s

Umm, no they're not. Source? Link? Those almost perfectly match the times I've seen for the ACR, and are way better than the times I've seen in various mags for the SRT-10. Exactly where did you quote those figures from?

and yes its my opinion, opinion backed up by the fact that ive driven both cars.

As much as I highly doubt that there's even 1% truth to that statement, that's irrelevant. Which Corvette was it you drove?

[Reaper90]

GORGEOUS car BigRat!  

Mine's much more of a sleeper.... looks pretty much 100% stock from te outside, but the exhaust note gives it away when it's sitting at a light idling.   She has a very nasty, big cam, really more aggressive than I wanted when I was discussing the expectations with the engine builder.... but I think I have learned to love the results!   She sounds like a cammed out '60's big block at idle, actually shakes the whole car. LG Motorsports stainless long-tube headers, removed cats, X-pipe, and Z06 titanium mufflers (I had Corsa Indy Pace Car stainless mufflers but with the headers and removed cats she was so loud it sounded like a whole pack of NEXTEL Cup cars when I stomped the gas, it actually was too scary loud to live with, I had to go to the Z06 factory mufflers)  -  the exhaust note is what gives away that it's not a "stock" Corvette.... I'm only making 445 rwhp (guestimating about 520-530 crank), but it's all motor.

[Reaper90]

Umm yea I drive a Jeep due to the climate I live in. A Vette in this climate _is_ purely for compensation since you can't drive it even 6 months on a typical year. In Florida it might be more appealing as an everyday car I guess.

Umm that's a totally different statement from your first two statements, which did in fact come off as very condescending and belittling. Sure there are a few Vette or Viper owners that might be "compensating" for something, just like there are plenty of Jeep owners that are trying really hard to play the part of "outdoorsy rugged guy" with big off-road tires, lifted suspensions, brush guards and off-road lights galore, when the closest they over come to off-roading their Jeep is accidentally driving accross the grass when pulling into the Starbucks or Bed Bath & Beyond parking lot. But they're not "compensating" for anything, no. 

Most Vette and Viper owners, I'd bet (based on the hundreds of Corvette owners and a few Viper owners I've met and been friends with in 15 years of Corvette Club, NASA and SCCA memberships) are people who just love the look, feel, and thrill of driving their cars, even if it's only 5 or 6 months out of the year, and quite frankly couldn't give a rat's bellybutton about what anyone else thinks of their cars or them, and aren't "compensating" for a thing, thankyouverydamnmuch.