wingman tactics

[branch37]

Aside from the "getting killed while on someones 6 conversation".  I have noticed that the AvA is probably the best place to actually practice and refine squad wingman tactics.  In frame 1 of the current FSO my squad scattered at first sight of enemy and we all died.  I brought us to the AvA for that specific reason, and in frame 2 the only planes we lost were due to lack of fuel.  That right there says something.  I have no clue if it is the no icons setup or the environment, but i know something is working here. 

[ink]

 SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)

[Puma44]

Ahhhhh....wingman tactics.

Effective wing tactics makes you more survivable; pure and simple.  There are several types of wingman tactics in AH. One is go out single ship, run into another friendly, and go against the horde.  Another is two or more taking off from the same base and moseying out to the fight (commonly known as "same way, same day").  This is a luck of the draw method and akin to Forrest Gump's box of chocolotes; I.e. Ya never know what ya get.....not very effective and more reliant on luck.  Another and infrequently seen tactic is a pair of guys or multiple pairs who have studied, practiced, employed tried and true tactical formation flying.  Just as in the real world this is very effective and survivable.  It's all a matter of personal preference on how you want to use your $14.95.

So, next time you're out single ship going after that single radar con, thinking "ooh, I'm gonna own this guy soon" and you're starting your conversion maneuver,  remember, as Clint Eastwood once said "Do you feel lucky, Punk?"
Remember, where there's one, there's two, and where there's two, there's....well, you get the picture.   

Check Six! (and your soft under belly) 

[dhyran]

well,

grumpy, before you start to complain you should ask yourself what went wrong.
On our first merge my squadmate drags you down pulled out a lot of E and set up a nice drag so i shot you down
on the second merge you came in higher then we were, it was a 2 vs 2 situation, but your "wingman" lost sight or maybe you just didn't talk to each other
you dove in and my wingman and i setted up a vertical bracket, and thats it, you starts to complain about getting picked, but you had an alt advantage against us at the beginning.

well, as i said yesterday, if you guys wanna have a 1vs1 AVA only arena, just declare it on the arena message and we LD will stay away

Aircombat in WW2 was never a 1 vs 1 combat, it was a many vs many! Pilots feared nothing more losing their wingman or sight of the group!
The real thrill is an organised many vs many fight like we do at the SDL

We LDs allways flys as a group, sometimes as elements, during combat we follows the double attack doctrine variant called loose deuce. We are all above average skilled fighter Pilots, we don't look at our overall Scores, we flying figther exclusive, and you only will find an LD pilot flying alone when there is just no other LD member online. So don't be too frustrated, you didn't lose against a group of gangbangers, you just lost against a Squadron which is based on wingman tactics (average online flying experience of LD pilots is 8 Years, a couple more than 15 years).
I don't mind to share some help, even yesterday with those complains you destroys my fun to fly at the AVA! Respecting other players and their way to play is the key point to have fun to fly over the years

to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:

http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf

Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!

I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
If you wanna know whats going on at our side during the combat watch this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU&feature=related
listen to the comms, allways drag clear press six ....
give it a try and you gonna get a brand new game and will have your fun back!

<S>
dhyran

[Dichotomy]

Actually I see where Grumpy is coming from.  It used to be an 'unwritten rule' in the AVA to leave 1 v 1 alone particularly if the arena is fairly low in population.  The arena is evolving and growing which means that wingman tactics are going to become more and more important.  Thus the reason that, with a few minor exceptions, if I find myself alone I'll actively look for a wingman to fly with. 

That said I do not want this arena to turn into a mini MA where the horde rules, HO's are commonplace, and smack talking is okay.  Granted I can cheerfully ignore this crud and still have a good time but I think the standards, such as they have been, make this place special.

We're all going to have to get a little meaner though. 

Thus.. Grumpy if you see me on any night other than Tue and Thu come with me and let's kill em all 

[Shifty]

just outta curiousity?

is it hard to talk without your lips?

Yes but smiling is a breeze.

SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)

One point you're missing though is there are no enemy icons in the AVA so there are no red guys so your not speaking to Grumpy from the same SA experiance. I understand Grumpy's frustration. He's a good stick and wipe the floor with me 8 times out of 10. The only point I'm trying to make is over the years the AVA has never been a place where there was no ganging hoing or vultching. People have promoted it that way  and tried to think it was that way maybe. It's always been there as far back as 2001 when it was the CT. Every time I've told myself it was different in the AVA I'd find out different and usually the hard way. The best bet is to worry about your own flying because there's nothing you can do about how the other guy flys anyway.

[VonMessa]

The most important aspect of a 2v1 is the 1 can no longer fight as if it was a 1v1.

Keep as much E as possible and don't bleed it by forcing a shot on your part.

Always assume that the wingman is about to get a guns solution on you and plan two steps ahead of that probability to have a plan to spoil his shot.

Watch your airspeed, alt and make coordinated turns.  Step on that ball brother!

Fly your plane to it's advantages.  If it's faster, disengage and come back with an advantage.  If it holds E well, fly them til they choke.  If it's a good turner, bleed their E til they are wallowing on the deck.

If you are serious about winning the engagement, never ever fight the fight on the terms of advantages that the opponents  plane has over yours.

A 2v1 does not mean the fight is over.  It means that you will feel much more satisfied when you are the last man standing.

[captain1ma]

my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.

unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.

[CAP1]

Come on grumpy, the only way to get a nice 1v1 is to invite someone to the DA and go at it. I do this all the time but I never expect a 1v1 in the AvA, MA, or anywhere else. I think your expectations are missed placed. To me, fun equals flying with my squad buddy's and kill everything, any way we can. Skill-less, I don't think so, just a different way of flying. Part of the group you were flying against today was the LD. This is how we roll. You can go to our website and read up on LD tactics. ( http://www.loose-deuce.net/?page=about ) If you like I would happy to go toe to toe with you in the DA. But in the AvA &MA, there will always be the "other" plane coming in and picking.
Respectfully,
~kc

actually most of us in the ava will ask before coming in on your fight....and will stay out if asked to stay out. there are a few exceptiions, but not many..............

[dhyran]

my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.

unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.

I See it a more from another Side
Complaining about wingtactics Drives complete squads out of the Arena

[CAP1]

Aside from the "getting killed while on someones 6 conversation".  I have noticed that the AvA is probably the best place to actually practice and refine squad wingman tactics.  In frame 1 of the current FSO my squad scattered at first sight of enemy and we all died.  I brought us to the AvA for that specific reason, and in frame 2 the only planes we lost were due to lack of fuel.  That right there says something.  I have no clue if it is the no icons setup or the environment, but i know something is working here. 

the "no icons" setup i think has a lot to do with it.

 the last time i was on(sadly about a week and a half ago), there was a pretty nice running fight right on the deck. evenly matched numbers, and mostly 109f's and p-38g, p-40e's. you should've heard the radio. constant warnings, notices of "i'm with ya" as one would go for a con, pretty much unplanned teamwork.
 what i mean by that, is that i don't think any of us went into that fight expecting warnings, help, etc......but yet we were all doing it. that wasn't the first time either.

[CAP1]

SA, 2vs1 isnt that difficult, hell on a good day ive killed 5of5 attackin me, now thats not common, just one of those days I couldnt miss, if you fly to the biggest red dar by your self as much as possable, you will sharpen up your merge and SA, both of these are vital for this game, aim is also very important,ever since I came here in 04 ive attacked the hourd,my aim is horrible but because of the way ive flown I can keep track of many cons,on a guess Ill bet I can track 10 or more cons,this is only because of the way Ive always flown,dont worry about dieing,fly for the fight and you will find your self way happier,say to yourself im gonna take on as many red guys as I can and kill as many as I can,even if you dont get any you are sharpening up your skillz,before you know it you will have extra sharp SA,and no one will be able to"pick"you,I have a sayin"I aint happy unless im diein"trust me,you will no longer find aggravation in game youll want the hourds!Youll need the multi cons for that rush :-)

try 2 v 1 without that big red SHOOT HERE banner. it gets real hard real fast.....and is massively fun.

[CAP1]

my only problem with wingman tactics is most of the time my squaddies aren't around and i fly solo. that makes it difficult at best for me. i tend to be a victim alot and it usually causes me to leave.

unfortunately new people that have never been in the AVA will also fall prey to this. kinda leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

when alot of people are in there, its fine and perfectly suited for those wingman tactics. when the numbers are down those tactics tend to drive new people away. just saying.

same offer that went to grumpy goes to you......

[CAP1]

somethign someone mentioned above....dhryan i think it was......he dragged grumpy down, and bled his e, setting him up for his wingman.,.....this is exactly why i never follow a con down, when i see em nose over. it's been done to me in the past, where i think i got him, and outta nowhere, i see tracers passin my canopy.....then whammo...tower....

 if we merge at 5k, 10, whatever alt....he dives, i follow for a second,.....he keeps going, i go back up. he can come back to me if he wants to fight. 

[TheBug]

I See it a more from another Side
Complaining about wingtactics Drives complete squads out of the Arena

+1