wingman tactics

[TEXICAN]

I know, guess i was just spoiled when it was smaller and more "controlled" if that makes any sense.  I enjoy the hell out of the big numbers but also miss the 1v1 when only 2 or 3 guys are on. 

I guess it's something to get used to.  I had the expectation that when I went to the AvA that I was going to have some good 1v1 or 2v1 fights without ho's and vultches and picks.  And I guess that's why I get so aggravated now because that is gone for the most part.  Had some good fights last night but for the most part it was just like the MA with no icons.  Had a higher pony run from my A5 drag me down to his friends instead of fight.  Then once I started fighting his friends he picks me to death even though it was 4v1.  Then got gulches at least 5 times on takeoff.  Vulched twice on landing.  And at the end it was 5 allied planes circling the axis field vs myself only.  Not only did they barely let me get off the ground but they all attacked at once.  What fun is that????  I'll gladly fight you thats what im here for.  But damn at least make it a fight.  I know whine has been recorded.  And it seems lime I'm whining a lot lately even to myself.  But to me something has changed in the game play.  Or maybe I'm just old and grumpy too.

[Shifty]

Tex,

Again I wouldn't call what you're saying a whine. The incident you are speaking of was a base capture attempt. When a base capture attempt is going on just about anything goes. I was with you last night during this time. Unfortunatly I was up way past my bedtime and as this happened my 52 year old eyes could hardly pick out the dots anymore. I needed to land and log off. A couple of us had been battling some of the face shooters and a JG-54 guy for over and hour as they were attempting to knock down the base defenses at 79. I assume for a capture atttempt. They had been there in M3s M8s M16s and M4s as well as a B-25 and B-26 attack earlier. Towards the end of the night they changed tactics from ground to air coming in in with heavy P-38s and had some guys in light fighters supressing the air defenses around the area. So it wasn't your usual AVA type flying. I don't think they were being underhanded they were just trying to achieve a goal by gaining A79. It always seems to get a little chippy around base capture attempts.

<S>

[Puma44]

I guess it's something to get used to.  I had the expectation that when I went to the AvA that I was going to have some good 1v1 or 2v1 fights without ho's and vultches and picks.  And I guess that's why I get so aggravated now because that is gone for the most part.  Had some good fights last night but for the most part it was just like the MA with no icons.  Had a higher pony run from my A5 drag me down to his friends instead of fight.  Then once I started fighting his friends he picks me to death even though it was 4v1.  Then got gulches at least 5 times on takeoff.  Vulched twice on landing.  And at the end it was 5 allied planes circling the axis field vs myself only.  Not only did they barely let me get off the ground but they all attacked at once.  What fun is that????  I'll gladly fight you thats what im here for.  But damn at least make it a fight.  I know whine has been recorded.  And it seems lime I'm whining a lot lately even to myself.  But to me something has changed in the game play.  Or maybe I'm just old and grumpy too.

It seems that when the MA squads come in, the unskilled cheap shots come along with them.  Although it's good to have higher numbers, the cheap shots seem to be a by product and mind set that most of us regulars came to the AvA to avoid and enjoy the more pure ACM atmosphere.  It just doesn't demonstrate any real skill level to drive straight at someones prop spinner and turn the gun on vs using some basic BFM and maneuver to an advantage. Vulching? Yeah, base capture gets down to the nitty gritty. But, waiting a tad for a guy to get gear up and some airspeed allows him to present a challenge.  If one has minimal to no BFM skills, then by all means, vulch away.

You are very worthy adversary, Texican and I always look forward to stepping into the phone booth with you and pulling out the knifes.  Your comments aren't a whine.  Just a good commentary on not so fine art of cheap shots.  

I do have to say though, that Jappa loves a good 1 v 3 or 4 and I'm constantly scolding him and telling him to stop picking on all those guys.   

[kculon]

From the AvA website under FAQ's.

3. Fly with a wing man whenever possible. Solid formation actually plays a role in no icons. You want your friends positioned so that you can easily tell who and where they are and in a manner that the blind spot at six o'clock is covered visually. My squadron has flown a lot of no icon and sloppy formation work always leads to trouble especially if it is so sloppy some of the friends drift outside of friendly icon range. When your formation gets this big you can't be sure of the identity of the dots you see and it plays havoc with tactics.

Also a nice picture posted on the AvA website, looks like .......  OMG ....... wing tactics.
http://photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Soulyss/AvA/kill3.jpg

But seriously, I would like to fly the AvA more, if there is a code of conduct associated with flying AvA, please post it in the MOD so I don't login and wreck your fun. If I'm asked not to HO, I don't HO. If I'm asked not to jump into an ongoing fight, say so, I'll stay away unless I'm asked for help. Complaining on 200 after a fight leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No offense intended and really, none taken, I just want to have fun too.
~kc

[Dichotomy]

kc

As I said on p2 of this thread the arena is evolving especially with the influx of squad based flying over the last few months (which I'm very happy to see.. There's been a culture of the cool kids don't ho, vultch, pick, ram, or gang, for years but, as Shifty said right behind me, that doesn't mean those things didn't happen.  For the most part the people that always engaged in that kind of behavior were considered tards by the regulars. Grumpy is, in my opinion, a very respectable and upstanding regular and I understand some of his frustration. 

As the arena evolves the way people play will do so as well.  The only person I can control is me and I'll continue to try to fly based on my own personal belief in what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'.  Unless it's a scheduled event then the gloves come off and you should be SCA... well Nerv... nope that doesn't work.  Hmmmmm.. bemused would probably fit the bill. Although occasionally I get lucky and fly somebody into a tree. 

From my own point of view it boils down to something very very simple.  I fly and act the way I am as a person.  If I wouldn't want it done to me (eg HO, vultch, or pick) then I try not to do it.  Fortunately I've got some truly fine people trying to help me NOT have to do any of the above to get kills and, for the first time in 5 years association with the game I'm actually working to remember the teachings. 

All of that stuff said at the end of the day I have to answer to myself.  Did I behave in such a way that I would respect?  Did I treat other players the way I would want to be treated? Did I, as a hard core supporter of the AVA arena, enhance the experience the other players both friend and foe? If I can honestly answer all three with a 'yes' it was a good day imho. 
 

[jimson]

But seriously, I would like to fly the AvA more, if there is a code of conduct associated with flying AvA, please post it in the MOD so I don't login and wreck your fun. If I'm asked not to HO, I don't HO. If I'm asked not to jump into an ongoing fight, say so, I'll stay away unless I'm asked for help.
~kc

The main thing is to remember we don't have the huge numbers that the MA's do. Some of you guys are such studs that you can really put a beat down on other players. After Iv'e been killed for the tenth time by the same guy even I am tempted to log sometimes.

Just treat it like your own arena that you are trying to get others to come and play in.

Maybe just don't be quite as ruthless as you can be in the MA with a never ending supply of players.

If you have a serious numbers advantage in a particular area maybe just send one or two guys in to engage while the rest observe and watch for more enemy to enter the area.

Ho's and vultches are the most complained about behavior in all arenas. So don't vultch. It's not necessary, if you are really trying to take a base or something I guess that's different but put yourself in anothers shoes. If you can't even take off before getting smashed what fun is that for them?

Ho's are never necessary, just avoid them and try to set up for a different shot.

Just try to fly for the good of the arena rather than your own ego.


If we can get it built up to where we can always have 10 guys flying wingman tactics against 20 other guys then we've got something.


So go ahead and fly wingman but ease off a little and don't use every advantage you have to constantly and brutally cream the heck out of the opposition, just because you can.

It's your arena. You want to have people in it to play with. Why would you want people to not have fun and never come back?

[CAP1]

we'll adapt, and keep on having fun. that's the whole idea.

 the important thing is that we have a core group of some of the friggin best guys in the game. we know what we have, and we know what we can have if we keep going.

 tex......as vor 1-1's........i think if you see any of us regulars in there, and want that, simply ask. you'll get it. i love the 1-1's, but i also love those "quick to get to" furballs where we're dodging the trees as much as we're dodging each other.

 the night you mentioned getting vulched, i think there was a "capture the flag" type of competition going on. unfortunatly, there's gonna be vulching when that's happening. on normal nights, you'll rarely find anyone vulching or picking.

 i had a friggin GREAT fight with badshot(that's where my last story came from) in which i think there was anotrher enemy in the area(i'd have to watch the film again to be sure), and he did not interfere. i dunno if badshot asked him to stay out, or what......but the point is that he did, and it equaled a white knuckle drag out 38 vs 109 fight. he did however come in at me as soon as i managed to finally shoot the 109 down, but at least he waited.

 keep comin in dude. this place grows on ya. kinda like a pinkish/blackish lemon smelling fungus. 

[Dichotomy]

and isn't

'HAVING FUN'

Isn't that the reason we play this game?

I'd seriously get bored if it was easy. 

Score? In the AVA? who CARES?

It's about the mutual respect between players, the fun, and the fight, that (in my opinion), makes the arena greatness.

Sure we're going to occasionally get some people who have no self control.  But I'll take 96% cool and hard fights any day of the week 

Laverne... still hunting..hehehehehehehehe

[dhyran]

now you guys are all about ho ing ganging ram and other stuff

I just wanna go back to the fight where this thread starts, It wasn't a ram, it wasn't a HO, it wasn' ganging, It was a classic flown vertical bracket, i announcesd it on our private TS3
"now he is dead" just 5 seconds before, the second guy lost sight and rtb or was fighting elsewhere
After a good fight i give often a Salute and i like the gentle way to play. But i don't like bad sportsmanship, i don't like whines on ch 200, and the only reason why is being shot down? thats a bad behavior as well, I don't like to offend people on ch 200! i love good teamplay, its not ganging, its great timeing combined with good flown ACMs, you have to spend a lot of time flying with your squadmates to reach and acceptable teamplay

@jimson you can't fight double attack with just 80%, you go 100% or you better stop flying, there is nothing else between, its like doing sports, you go for it for 100% or you leave it

[CAP1]

one of the keys if you've got a couple on ya, is to get down low. REAL low. then forget the gentle maneuvers that don't bleed "E". crank that plane around like you're on crack. make it harder for them to see ya. 8 outta 10 times you'll manage to make at least ONE of em lose sight of ya, even if just for a few seconds. oftentimes, that's all ya need, to even things out.

[Nr_RaVeN]

The majority flies honorably in the AVA. The AVA crowed, for the most part tends to ask before they jump in or shoulder shoot.
Most from what I have experienced in the AVA are extremely skilled Sim pilots.
With that comes wing tactics at times. When in trouble,some pepole ask for help, other guys offer to help a teamate in need.

The arena  by far delivers a WWII flight Sim experience that is superior to any arena AH has to offer at this point.
The Axis V allied plane sets, historically accurate set ups, and the NO ICON experience to name only a few.Thees things just makes sense.

Spits fighting spits, and 1942 AC fighting 1945 AC is plane goofy. Glowing red and green icons set to outrageous distances so every player in 5 miles jumps on one bandit is kiddish as well. AVA is very much unlike the Air quake mentality of the MA.

So yes there are a few MA types that pop in to the AVA and vulch ho etc. But I see that the ones that come back again and again to the AvA adjust their playing style to a more honorable one once they see that dirty flying and poor sportsmanship are frowned upon in the AVA.

By default the AVA attacks a better level of game play when compared to other AH areans. Its not a perfect world, and the AvA cant be all things to all pepole but it is sure a refreshing change from the status quo.

[NormH3]

Let me make this clear now. I'm not in this for points. If I'm being attacked, and you are flying my colors, you may help. DON'T ASK..JUST HELP. Even if its to just buzz the other guy and make him aware that you're there. Have only been here a couple weeks and yhis has to be the hardest game I've ever played..which is a good thind as I doubt I will ever become bored.

Carry on! 

[jimson]

Dhyran, I wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

Of course you are going to play to win. Who doesn't?

However, if you are flying double attack it would be reasonable to send one element in on a single bandit while the rest of the flights fly cover.

Your squad is very very good. Many of you have been flying together since WB and if I recall you only allow membership to those with a certain kill ratio, all well and good but if you use every advantage you have in talent, numbers, AC whatever, all you will be doing is repeatedly clubbing everyone else to death.

If one super squad becomes so dominate in an arena that has a tenuous hold on population to where the other side can only be immediately killed every time they up it won't be much of a challenge for you and will be no chance for the others.

If you owned this arena and wanted it to be successful, that you would like to have people want to come play  and that most of those people won't have the talent that you do, how would you approach your own play style so that this would be an attractive enough venue to lure others in?

That is the way to think about it because we all want the arena to be more successful more than we care about our individual or our squad success.

[grumpy37]

   who is making these?  I love them.......

I think a few have taken this way personally and if so im sorry.  this was more me venting my frustration a bit and pointing out something that i know others have talked about as well.  Got way more positive feedback then I thought i would, you can tell the difference between most of the players in this arena and the MA just by reading our threads.  I think the point has been made by all different sides and I dont want  this to turn people against each other or keep players from coming to the arena.  I was simply voicing my opinion not trying to set new rules.  You all pay your $15 a month and have the right to play how you want but this is no different then the real world.  Your actions, good or bad depending on point of view, will always get a reaction. 

One thing Ive learned from this thread is that with so many different views of how the game should be played there will never be a "perfect arena" because there are to many opinions on what the perfect arena is. 

I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down.   

[noTch]

I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down.  

There ya go, finally the point of this thread.  GRUMPY IS SPECIAL

  sir