wingman tactics

[CAP1]

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I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down.   

i've been looking at it this way for awhile now.

now if only i could get good enough that you needed help to get me too.

[dhyran]

 who is making these?  I love them.......
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I think from now on, and im not trying to be arrogant, when i get beat up on in a 2v1 that feels they need to use their ubber wingman tactics to shoot my lone plane down im just gonna smile and feel special cause they felt it would take 2 of them to shoot my 1 cartoon plane down.  

well, as i wrote above, it starts as an 2 vs 2 but for me it looks like the second con turns away and rtb. Its good when you give it a smile thats much more better instead of these whines on the CH
I learned to leave you alone, you don't want to compete, you wanna beat new players in a 1 vs 1, good hunting in an empty arena
I'll spend my time somewhere else, there's enough to do  

 

[grumpy37]

well, as i wrote above, it starts as an 2 vs 2 but for me it looks like the second con turns away and rtb. Its good when you give it a smile, thats much more better instead of these whines on the CH
I learned to leave you alone, you don't want to compete, you wanna beat new players in a 1 vs 1, good hunting in an empty arena
I'll spend my time somewhere else, there's enough to do  

 

I think you missed the point unfortunatlly.  I get my   to me daily by very formidable oponents in 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 and so on.  Im sorry you feel this way but by reading this thread I see im not alone in my feeling.  Good luck to you sir and anytime you wanna shed your wingman and test your personal skills let me know.


I just reread my OP and I think my point, or complaint depending on how you view it, specificaly talks about a 1v1 situation, not a group or a furball or a full arena of 40 players. 

[dhyran]

I think you missed the point unfortunatlly.  I get my   to me daily by very formidable oponents in 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 and so on.  Im sorry you feel this way but by reading this thread I see im not alone in my feeling.  Good luck to you sir and anytime you wanna shed your wingman and test your personal skills let me know.


I just reread my OP and I think my point, or complaint depending on how you view it, specificaly talks about a 1v1 situation, not a group or a furball or a full arena of 40 players. 

i got your point, and i aceppt each ones point of views, i just don't like whines on the CH thats all. when i am shot down i exactly know why and all the time i know how it happend and what i can do to avoid it next time. but i would never start to complain on an open ch about the opponent! Sometimes the opponent is just better on his manouvers, sometime i do stupid stuff, or call it " i fly crap" whetever! but it happend, you been shotdownand you shot down others, just no deal. its great fun, thats why we are all here for
when i see a fight on the deck i often ask, "need help?", but i don't ask my wingman if we wanna fight a con, its only a question about how we set up the opening. If we lose, its allright, if we win its also nice.
I fly to rtb! to rtb with my wingman and squadmates, thats what counts for me. Every player has his own goals and playstyles. I know you like to go for a 1vs1, its allright. I like the no icon stuff like all of you here but we only have to accept the difference of each own target ones wants to go for

cheers

[grumpy37]

 

[jimson]

To be clear, I never expect 1v1 duels in this arena. That's not what the arena is for, but I've been known not to engage when I see a fight going on. I may stay close and see if another bandit enters or if the friendly loses I may enter the fight then.

When our squad is flying squad missions we do fly in support of each other and I guess that is what Dhyran is talking about.

Some of the small things I do here to create a friendlier environment is to avoid taking Ho shot's, do not vultch, try not to gang up too much on single bandits and sometimes if I am chasing a damaged bandit close to his base and it is apparent that he is trying to land, I'll give up the easy kill and let him land.

Just small courtesies to help make it a better experience for all.

[TequilaChaser]

The majority flies honorably in the AVA. The AVA crowed, for the most part tends to ask before they jump in or shoulder shoot.
Most from what I have experienced in the AVA are extremely skilled Sim pilots.
With that comes wing tactics at times. When in trouble,some pepole ask for help, other guys offer to help a teamate in need.

The arena  by far delivers a WWII flight Sim experience that is superior to any arena AH has to offer at this point.
The Axis V allied plane sets, historically accurate set ups, and the NO ICON experience to name only a few.Thees things just makes sense.

Spits fighting spits, and 1942 AC fighting 1945 AC is plane goofy. Glowing red and green icons set to outrageous distances so every player in 5 miles jumps on one bandit is kiddish as well. AVA is very much unlike the Air quake mentality of the MA.

So yes there are a few MA types that pop in to the AVA and vulch ho etc. But I see that the ones that come back again and again to the AvA adjust their playing style to a more honorable one once they see that dirty flying and poor sportsmanship are frowned upon in the AVA.

By default the AVA attacks a better level of game play when compared to other AH areans. Its not a perfect world, and the AvA cant be all things to all pepole but it is sure a refreshing change from the status quo.

Nice Post !  I had a recent chance to get a few flights in the AvsA, and did not have any problems with the other side ganging..... their was one fight where I did have a 2nd and 3rd con come in right as I was finishing the particular dogfight I was in, but they were not their to dogpile me in no sense of the word...

I myself had to log quiet quickly due to my current pain threshold in my hands and arms, or I would have stayed to keep on fighting...... I didn't even have the chance to tell em all I was leaving 

I think NrRaven was there that day along with Tree and some others.....

to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:

http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf

Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!

I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
<S>
dhyran

dyhran,

nice little pdf tutorial you posted a link to, may I suggest you edit it with a "References" or "Research from"  notation at the end to show which parts came from what resources to make it more validated 
 it is a nice lil PDF, almost looks like a power point presentation going by the way it is layed out and size / orientation of the page


hope to get backto the AvsA soon

ya'll have fun 

[Dichotomy]

For the record if you ever see me whine on 200 or on this board you have earned yourself the right to punch me in the back of the head and I'll hold still for it. 

1 v I don't care how many.  I'll just smile and get another plane.

I'm really glad VF17 is making it's presence known in the arena.  Yall fly tactically and I appreciate the heck out of that.  Environment evolving keeps things fresh. 

I see a lot of gripes about the game becoming stale.  Not here especially with the infusion of new folks.  Used to be you could go out solo and get in a 1 v 1 while the rest of the reds stayed away.  Now you can't so you better get better and sharper quick or you're going to eat dirt.

I like it  Or perhaps I'm just fond of dirt brownies.  Either way it's all good

[Puma44]

to give you a better impression how we LDs work it out take a closer look here:

http://pics.loose-deuce.net/LD_Basic_Fighter_Maneuvering.pdf

Keypoint is the right timeing! To get it you should spend a lot of time with your wingman together!

I hope the doc might be a helping hand!
<S>
dhyran


Great post and BFM document!   .  Very good reference for tactical flying and employment.  You are spot on about it taking time to practice and get the timing down.  The learning curve is steep at first but tac formation flying becomes second nature after a while. .

[dhyran]

dyhran,

nice little pdf tutorial you posted a link to, may I suggest you edit it with a "References" or "Research from"  notation at the end to show which parts came from what resources to make it more validated  
 it is a nice lil PDF, almost looks like a power point presentation going by the way it is layed out and size / orientation of the page


hope to get backto the AvsA soon

ya'll have fun  

well, this one was created for internal use, but with this posting i want to share it a bit, nothing more
You as a trainer have seen that a lot of tactical thought are from Robert L. Shaws "Fighter Combat" . This one was used as a  Standard for us WB Trainers back in times

I am working on a many vs many actual, also for internal LD use only so i didn't put any references into it, maybe i should
If some of you will train a bit more the wingman aspects, the SDL is the right place to be, a great place you will find out if your squad got the right timing or not.
Quick fights, lot of adrenaline and tons of good fun


<S>
dhyran

[Nr_RaVeN]

Correct we all have our own way we enjoy the sim..
Ever train with lead wights on your ankles or an extra huge back pack on?

That's kinda how I look at dog fights in simms. I actually enjoy charging into 3-4 bad guys allone when i want to hone up. Hell i get the crap blown outta myself, but man do I learn allot. Often times you can end up taking 3 of the 4 out, if you play your cards right and have a bit of luck on your side.

What a great way to learn, just yell, CHarrrge AND GO FOR IT!!

[kculon]

just to let you in on a little secret, although technically we (LD) fly in wings, during many vs many, every pilot is every pilots wing man. It' pure chaos, but when it comes together it's a thing of beauty....
~kc 

[4brkfast]

I'veheard this too many times before. Whining because a squad uses tactics and are good at it. Frankly if you die, it's your fault. You probably break one of the cardinal rules, lost sight or sa, or you were too slow.
Is winging up with somebody as bad as flying a spit16 all the time? I doubt it, the squad 'loose deuce' did NOT invent loose deuce tactics. It was used in the war by all sides.those that didn't died.

I'll leave you all with this. ' one man alone is a liability. A two ship section is an asset.'

[CAP1]

the axis guys were using wingman tactic very effectively last night. i'd drop into a fight on one, then find one or two behind me. i did the same to some axis guys. the fights were/are a blast

[Puma44]

An age old adage in fighters; "Lose sight, lose fight".  If flying single ship, you will always lose sight at some point in the fight. With a wingman and flying effective, coordinated tactical formation, the odds of losing sight are significantly reduced.