Author Topic: T34 Loading/Reloading  (Read 1256 times)

Offline Vinkman

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 10:16:19 AM »
Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
 I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.

Good info. Thakns for that.  :aok
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Offline R 105

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 10:28:04 AM »
 Also the US and later German tanks had a dedicated loader that did nothing but load the gun unlike the T-34 crew. The also US and German tanks didn't have a hand traversed turret ether.

Offline B4Buster

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 10:41:02 AM »
I also believe in the case of the T-34/76 it only had a two man turret which means that either the commander or gunner was pulling double duty as the loader which would certainly slow down fire rate.


Yup, only one loader.
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Offline rayace1

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 07:09:24 PM »
OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 06:30:22 AM »
OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.


Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 07:15:06 PM »
Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.

Here are the "official" reloads times of all the tank guns in the game:

M4A3/75mm> 3.6 sec
M4A3/76mm (W)> 3.6 sec (Too fast. Should be closer to 4 seconds, imo)
M8> 2.1 sec
LVT-4> 3.6 sec 
"Firefly"> 7.2 sec
T34/76> 8.2 sec
T34/85> 6.8 sec 
Pzr IV H> 5.4 sec 
"Panther" G> 6 sec
"Tiger" E> 6.3 sec
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Offline rayace1

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 07:33:06 PM »
Now those reload times tell the story. The T34s need a better reload system.
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Offline E25280

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 10:18:45 PM »
I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9).  Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate.  By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate.  Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.

The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 11:06:10 PM »
I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9).  Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate.  By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate.  Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.

The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html

IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm.  The variable reload rate is given for a reason.  Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun.  Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots.  Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading. 

Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.   

Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews???  The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute".  Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale.  In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale.  No harm in mixing things up from time to time???  Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds???  Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second???  Food for thought. 
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Offline Flipperk

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 11:27:05 PM »
dont even bother explaining wiki, i gave up a long time ago.  you know all the other sources where only the author can post whatever he/she wants are more reliable  :rofl.

semp

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Suck on that and tell me the flavor

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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2011, 11:53:42 PM »
Wikipedia is currently the world's most up to date information database.


Suck on that and tell me the flavor

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Chocolate.

No, wait.  Someone just changed it to Orange.

 :neener:


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Offline 321BAR

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2011, 11:58:37 PM »
Chocolate.

No, wait.  Someone just changed it to Orange.

 :neener:


wrongway
all you have to do with the wikipedia articles is press the source links and verify the data wrongway :aok
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Offline Flipperk

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2011, 01:04:47 PM »
But obviously verifying information is too much work.
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Offline E25280

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2011, 05:54:12 PM »
IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm.  The variable reload rate is given for a reason.  Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun.  Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots.  Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading. 

Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.   

Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews???  The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute".  Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale.  In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale.  No harm in mixing things up from time to time???  Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds???  Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second???  Food for thought. 
I could be wrong, but I thought the turret on the LVT(A)-4 was a relatively small two-man turret.  So it's superb rate of fire seems to already account for any advantage of an open turret.

3.6 second reload time is already between 15 (4 seconds) and 20 (3 seconds).  Maybe the 75mm gun's reload time should be shortened? But, yes, it seem intuitively reasonable to have at least a small difference in reload time.

Variability of quality isn't coded elsewhere in the game, so I don't see a "crew experience variable" being added.  It might be interesting to have a perked crew option, though, similar to a perked ordinance scheme that was once discussed.
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Offline Vudu15

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Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2011, 02:16:23 PM »
I thought that the T34/76s had an autoloader for the gun hence why it was so slow......I could of course be wrong.
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