NEW RAF Heavy Bomber Group - Lancaster

[Viking]

I've only begun in AH, but have been into simulations since 1988. With the demise of MP B17 II, I'm into an RAF bomber squadron. Have some personal history here since my father retired RCAF in 1983.

I'm thinking it would be fun to have this group all Canadian, but if you're really interested in joining up we'll baptize you  

We have specific ideas about this. We are  looking for both pilots and gunners to fly with, and we'd like to have both positions in each aircraft. We're also considering getting some committed escort.

At the moment the two of us talking about this fly for Bishops. But we would consider switching to the Rooks if we can find committed escort.

Choice of the Lancaster is an obvious one since it was built by Cdns and British and is fast with a huge payload capacity.

Mail me anytime at viking11@home.com

     

"If it only has one engine, it ain't a plane."

[Staga]

As a Knit It's my pleasure to welcome you guys to visit Knitland.

Of course you'll need to walk back home 'cause your Lancs will be filled with lead and there's no more room for a pilot...    

Welcome and Cya !

edit: Lancaster as I would like to see it

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 09-09-2000).]

[Replicant]

If you require any details on squadrons that operated Lancasters (RAF & RCAF) then let me know.

Regards

'Nexx'

[nonoht]

If you want bish escort you can always ask us...

   
"Nemo me impune lacessit"
GC III/2 "Alsace" Sqd 341 Free French



[This message has been edited by nonoht (edited 09-10-2000).]

[Viking]

Staga

heh!  We plan to cause some serious adjustments to tactical strategy. I think you'll find we'll offer some challenge.

Replicant: if yo'd like to supply some details on Lanc operations, esp with regard to the squadrons that flew them, that would be cool. Do you also have access to varioius insignia? Were there any purely Canadian squadrons?
 
 

Originally posted by nonoht:
If you want bish escort you can always ask us...

Hey, awesome. We will take you on your offer!

 

[funked]

Welcome!  My squadron flies for Knights this month but we rotate to a new country after each tour of duty.  We would love to supply escort for any RAF bombers.  If you see us in the arena just holler!



------------------
Major Mike "FunkedUp" Waltz
Officer Commanding, 308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Northolt Wing (1st Polish Fighter Wing)
Goldie, how many times have I told you guys that I don't want no horsing around on the airplane... Now let's get this thing on the hump -- we got some flyin' to do!

[straffo]

Yep just ask  

   
"Nemo me impune lacessit"
GC III/2 "Alsace" Sqd 341 Free French

[Replicant]

Sorry for the delay, hope you find some of this useful.

RAF Lancaster Squadrons (RCAF)  As you may know, many RCAF squadrons were redesignated under the RAF sqn numbers.  Here are such sqns that flew the Lancaster.

405 (Vancouver) Sqn – motto: “Ducimus”  (We Lead)
Sqn code: LQ
Aircraft used:  Wellington II; Halifax II; Lancaster I, III, X; also used - Spitfire VB; Tiger Moth
(405 Sqn was the only Canadian ‘Pathfinder’ squadron)

408 (Goose) Sqn – motto: “For Freedom”
Sqn code: EQ
Aircraft used:  Hampden I; Halifax II, III, V, VII; Lancaster II, X; also used – Manchester I

419 (Moose) Sqn – motto: “Moose aswayita” (Beware of the Moose)
Sqn code:  VR
Aircraft used:  Whitley V; Wellington I, IC, III; Halifax III, VII; Lancaster X

420 (Snowy Owl) Sqn – motto: “Pugnamus finitum” (We fight to a finish)
Sqn code: PT
Aircraft used: Hampden I; Wellington III; Halifax III, VII; Lancaster X

424 (Tiger) Sqn – motto: “Castigandos castigamus” (We chastise those who deserve to be chastised)
Sqn code: QB
Aircraft used: Wellington III, X; Halifax III; Lancaster I

425 (Alouette) Sqn – motto: “Je te plumerai” (I shall pluck you)
Sqn code:  KW
Aircraft used: Wellington III, X; Halifax III; Lancaster X; also used – Proctor III

426 (Thunderbird) Sqn – motto: “On Wings Of Fire”
Sqn code: OW
Aircraft used: Wellington III, X; Lancaster II; Halifax III, VII; Liberator VI, VIII; also used – Oxford II; Proctor III

427 (Lion) Sqn – motto:  “Ferte manus certas” (Strike sure)
Sqn code: ZL
Aircraft used:  Wellington III, X; Halifax III, V; Lancaster I, III; also used – Oxford I

428 (Ghost) Sqn – motto:  “Usque ad finem” (To the very end)
Sqn code:  NA
Aircraft used:  Wellington III, X; Halifax II, V; Lancaster X

429 (Bison) Sqn – motto: “ Fortunae nihil” (Nothing to chance)
Sqn code: AL
Aircraft used:  Wellington III, X; Halifax II, III, V; Lancaster I, III

431 (Iroquois) Sqn – motto: “The hatiten ronteriios” (Warrior of the air)
Sqn code: SE
Aircraft used: Wellington III; Halifax III, V; Lancaster X

432 (Leaside) Sqn – motto: “Saeviter ad lucem”  (Ferociously towards the light)
Sqn code: QO
Aircraft used: Wellington X; Lancaster II; Halifax III, VII

433 (Porcupine) Sqn – motto: “Qui s’y frotte s’y pique” (Who opposes it gets hurt)
Sqn code: BM
Aircraft used: Halifax III; Lancaster I

434 (Bluenose) Sqn – motto: “In exelsis vincimus” (We conquer the heights)
Sqn code: WL
Aircraft used: Halifax III, V; Lancaster X; also used  - Tiger Moth

Additionally, there are a couple of famous ‘RAF’ Lancaster squadrons that are not being used in Aces High such as 9 Sqn and 44 Sqn.  If you’re interested in more then let me know.

I can get some insignia, if you decide which squadron you're going to choose then let me know and I can supply additional information.

Regards

'Nexx'

PS  If you want to narrow the list down, the Lancaster II didn't use Merlin engines (they used Bristol Hercules engines).  The AH Lancaster III belongs to 170 Sqn, with Parkard-built Merlins and FN82 0.5" Brownings rear turret.




[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 09-11-2000).]

[Sorrow[S=A]]

The 405 rocks the hardest!

These guys were certifiably nuts. Johnny Johnson once recounted how after bombing positions in france they would descend to 800 ft and line up nose to tail and fly alongside a road strafing troops and vehicles with the tail guns and nose gun as they passed overtop. Imagine it; 10-20 lancasters lined up nose to tail flying over the ground at 250 mph shooting up everything in their path!
He said they were fearless- often losing engines and getting punctured in hundred of places by ground fire- but the effects on the germans below was terrifying!

hehe. Crazy canucks...

[DrSoya]

 

Originally posted by Replicant:
425 (Alouette) Sqn – motto: “Je te plumerai” (I shall pluck you)
Sqn code:  KW
Aircraft used: Wellington III, X; Halifax III; Lancaster X; also used – Proctor III

433 (Porcupine) Sqn – motto: “Qui s’y frotte s’y pique” (Who opposes it gets hurt)
Sqn code: BM
Aircraft used: Halifax III; Lancaster I

"Alouette": comes from a French folk song that all French Canadian children learn in kindergarten. "Alouette, gentille alouette, alouette, je te plumerai." (Lark, gentle lark, lark, I will pluck you.)

"Qui s'y frotte s'y pique": French saying. Literally: "who touches it [the porcupine] gets stinged", meaning of course what is said above.

Were those two squadrons mainly crewed with French Canadians?

------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 09-12-2000).]

[Replicant]

Hi DrSoya

Yes, I can confirm that 425 (Alouette) Sqn was manned with French Canadian's.  However, I cannot confirm that 433 (Porcupine) Sqn was French Canadian but the chances are it was.  

I also found out that although 425 (Alouette) Sqn did have Lancasters, they did not fly operational in WW2 - they received the Lancasters between the months of May 1945 and September 1945.

Regards

'Nexx'

[Vosper]

[Johnny Johnson once. . . .]

Just finished reading his book "Wing Leader," and it mentions just 2 planes;

"Instead of turning to the north to set course for England after dropping its load, one of the Lancasters came down in a fairly steep dive towards the strongly defended enemy-held territory south of the city. I watched this manoeuvre in some amazement as the Lancaster would soon find itself a solitary target for the German Flak.  Perhaps the aircraft had had its controls shot away or damaged and could only fly in this fashion.  But wait, the bomber has now levelled out and is still flying due south only a few feet above the main Caen-Falaise road. Amazed, I watch its antics.  What the hell is the pilot up to?  I soon discover the object of the low-level flight.  This road, which is one of the enemy's main supply routes, is packed here and there with stationary tanks, armoured cars and vehicles.

As it sweeps dow the road, both front and rear turrets of the bomber are in action and the gunners are firing long bursts into the enemy vehicles.  There is a considerable amount of light flak, but the pilot obviously scorns this small stuff, since he is accustomed to a nightly barrage of heavy flak over the industrial cities of Germany.  For him this affair is a bit of a lark, and like a schoolboy away from the vigilance of his prefect he is making the most of his freedom.

Now the Lancaster carries out a slow wide turn to re-trace its flight northwards to Caen.  Majestically it ploughs along over the straight road with rear and front guns blazing away.  Enemy drivers and crews abandon their vehicles as the Lancaster pounds along and dive for the shelter of the hedgerows.  But what is this?  Another Lancaster has appeared on the scene and is carrying out similar tactics.  The first Lancaster is flying north.  The second is steaming south.  Both are over the centre of the highway and both avoid each other with a careful little swerve.

Speechless, I watch the role of fighter-bomber being carried out, and most effectively, by the four-engined heavies.  But now it is all over.  The original glamour boy has climbed away to the north for his homeward journey and the second is pulling up from his strafing run."

No mention in his book about what sqn this is or even if its Canadian, only refered to as "Lancasters of Bomber Command".

Cheers  

[funked]

Wow Vosper!

[Viking]

Many thanks Replicant!  ANd Straffo, we will yet take you up on your kind offer. Now which to do first? Probably finish my bomber training notes for newbies..  


   

[Replicant]

Yep Viking, let me know which Sqn you're going to choose... I guess 405 is the most famous of the Canadian sqns.  I also used to spend a lot of time in buffs in AH so if you need to compare ideas/tips then we can always meet up in the TA.

I also posted this as a reply to a post by Zigrat.  Chances are many missed it:-

This is taken from the AFDU Tactical Trials Report 30 May 1942.
Corkscrew
"This evasion consists of a steep diving turn of about 30 degrees and 500ft, followed by a steep climbing turn of 30 degrees and 500ft in the opposite direction. The manoeuvre must be as violent as possible, particularly at the top and bottom of the corkscrew, to avoid giving an easy deflection shot. It should begin when the first fighter attacking is at 600yards and should be continued throughout the engagement unless all the fighters attacking can be clearly seen by the Controller to be out of position, when normal flight can be resumed. This evasion is tiring for the pilot and must be stopped immediately it is clear that immediate attacks are developing. The main advantage of corkscrewing are that the bomber can make good its course, while the fighter is given difficult deflection in two dimensions in that it has to aim in front and below during the diving turn, and in front and above during the climb. Assessment of fighters' cine camera guns film proved in the case of Lancaster, as with other 4-engined bombers, that even the most experienced of fighter pilots who knew that the evasion was to be were able to obtain moderate results. Height can be maintained without any extra throttle opening when the Lancaster is without bomb load, but when fully loaded slight opening is necessary to regain height in the climbing turn. This evasion does not affect the air gunner's shooting as much as a tight turn and did not prevent them from obtaining good cine camera gun results when they became used to the movement".

Tight Turn
"The Lancaster is sufficiently manoeuvrable to be able to do a very tight turn and if this is timed correctly, a fighter who is making an attack at a fast overtaking speed is given a difficult deflection and only a short burst of fire. Against a steep diving attack, a slightly climbing turn is advisable but against a normal stern attack, a diving turn is best as it enables the Lancaster to gain speed. The tight turn is the best evasion against a single fighter provided that it is correctly timed - at about 600 yards - and that there is no question of shortage of petrol or other fighters coming up to engage the bomber. Under the latter circumstances, or if more than one fighter is attacking, the corkscrew evasion is more effective, because it enables the bomber to maintain a course and height instead of flying circles".

Head-on attacks
"Were carried out against the Lancaster but were difficult to deliver owing to its high speed. It is often possible for the Lancaster to prevent the attack developing by edging towards the fighter when it is trying to get into position. If the attack is delivered, a diving turn at about 800yards is effective and gives the fighter an extremely difficult deflection allowance. The mid-upper gunner, who will be facing forwards for this type of attack, is given a reasonable shot".

The report continues for defending whilst in formation where they have to change the procedure slightly.

Quite a good report (lots more information in full report), obviously early with it being 1942 so it could have changed somewhat by the end of WWII.

Regards

'Nexx'