Training film series - What did Soulyss do wrong this time?

[Soulyss]

Mornin' folks, I've been thinking of a way to try and help folks beyond the damage I'm doing in one on one sessions and it occurred to me that I could post films and then ask people to spot my mistakes which would hopefully spawn more questions and generate a discussion that would result in some people walking away having learned something.

So to kick off this little experiment I have a film from a P-38 duel I with Madda the other night, if memory serves we flew 4 or 5 he won the first couple and I won the last couple including the one in the film below. My victory was more of a last ditch move and lucky shot, Madda controlled most of the fight.  For that duel I was more aggressive than usual, both on the merge and I was experimenting a bit with some more aggressive throttle work.   

I get some angles on the merge, then lose them, spend most of the fight on the defensive then manage to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat at the very end (which is a change, usually my gunnery lets me snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ).

So here's the question, where did I go wrong?  What could I have done differently that could have kept me on the offensive rather than the defensive for most of the fight?

Let the experiment commence.
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/soulyss/38duel_madda.ahf


I don't want to just here from the vets and the experts here, I encourage anyone to throw an idea out, there isn't a "wrong" answer here if it means you learn something from it.

[morfiend]

Great idea Soulyss,I'm interested to see how this thread develops.




     

[BillyD]

You can experiment flipping your throttle work around in a rolling scissor, throttle up nose down to gain e and throttle off nose up to let gravity slow you maximizing on the smash you've gained going down. The plane who gets the slowest and maintains control up top will win the scissor most of the time. The guy with too much E will lose.....In this case you can also use the massive, highly effective rudder force of that bird to really push the nose over in a controlled stall at the top of the scissor loop to spin your nose around into lead pursuit ( downward in the scissor...I like to lag up and lead down.... ). Different planes have different tricks at the top, I swear I've seen some 38 guys ( cactus and Del come to mind ) flip that sucker over ( dual throttle? ) on a dime and take the offensive from the top of a scissor....

In a K4 for example you can use the engine torque and cross control rudder up there to perform a controlled snap stall and go into lead or  (have a gun solution if the EA has too much E)  at extremely slow speed (50 to 80 mph LOL ), either way slow, smooth and controlled in the scissor will win the fight. From what I saw madda just flew that scissor a bit smoother and went on the offensive

damn its late...I got alot of film of some pretty gnarly rolling scissor stuff like this I'll post up...

[sunfan1121]

I think you lost it on the merge. You don't need to chop throttle if you go for a flat merge. Your already blowing energy by going flat, and when he starts the rolling scissor it leaves you with very little E to play with.  Another thing I noticed is on your first rolling scissor you didn't make the loop as big as you could have, you want to make that first loop the biggest you can.

[pervert]

I wouldn't chop as much throttle like that on a merge but it actually worked quite well to gain a decent position in the rolling scissors, madda having the extra smash works against him. I'd agree with Suns about the loops getting smaller and also losing the angle of the rolling scissor the line Soul takes is seeminly always to guns at the top of the rolling scissor, probably to try and make madda think he has a guns solution and tighten his loop and burn off some E, but Soul never has the E to get there in time as a result his loops gradually become smaller and more up down than left to right he eventually losses posistion and more importantly the E to continue the manevour.

I don't see much wrong with Soul's merge it worked ok. In the rolling scissors I'd be working to regain some of the E lost gaining posistion on the merge by going taking a slightly wider line from left to right through the scissors and keep it a bit flatter and faster at the top until I had gained the E to start pressurising madda with guns to turn tighter, of course its all relative to how much the opponent is gaining your 6 throughout the scissors.

[Soulyss]

Good stuff gents, keep it coming.

Different planes have different tricks at the top, I swear I've seen some 38 guys ( cactus and Del come to mind ) flip that sucker over ( dual throttle? ) on a dime and take the offensive from the top of a scissor....

You don't actually need dual throttle to flip the 38 like that, if you use a little coordinated aileron/rudder/elevator work you can stall one wing and flip it over at pretty low speeds.   Dual throttles actually only help in a few very specific cases, I think most folks over-estimate their usefulness.  Basically they're good for making really clean hammerhead type stalls, you can also create an asymmetric power/torque condition to help with roll-rate (but at the cost of E) and make fun donut turns on the runway. 

[FLS]

Diving to build kinetic energy then cutting throttle seemed counter-productive unless you were trying to get Madda in a higher energy state to open up his turn. Since he extended he gave you enough turning room anyway to get positon for the roller.
You screwed up in the rolling scissors when you went to lead pursuit then you turned away from Madda and just gave him your 6. Then you said you knew you did something wrong. You'll see where you went from lag to lead and gave up angles but the bigger mistake was turning the wrong way. Madda did the same thing near the end when flew lead and turned right instead of turning left and restablishing lag. When he missed the snap shot and crossed in front of you he didn't see you had a shot and didn't try a guns defense. You looked pretty evenly matched. If Madda ever starts flying the 38 watch out.   

[maddafinga]

Well I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening any time soon.  Perhaps in another few years when I start to feel like I can fly my K4 competently.  That 38 just felt unnatural all the way around, I would have killed for my k4 and its torque there.  Great fun fights Soulyss.  If you like I can post my angle of the fight, just for comparison's sake. 

[The Fugitive]

Please do Madda, I'd like to see it from your side too.

[maddafinga]

Please do Madda, I'd like to see it from your side too.

Actually, looking at it now, I don't have that one.  The one I have is our middle fight where Soulyss just owned me from the merge on.  Kind of a shame.  I meant to save them all, but somehow didn't manage to.  Sorry.

[50CALMG]

HI,

I have only been flying for about three months mostly in the DA . Looks to me you lost your e  initialy in the merg doing an aggressive low throttle flat turn whilst your adversary went high for a verticale reversal. He more or less controlled the fight until he overshot and ran through your tracer. What a gift!

Thansk for the vid. Its a great way to learn

50CALMG