Author Topic: Worst cars ever made  (Read 15049 times)

Offline morfiend

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #195 on: February 16, 2011, 04:49:09 PM »
The cars frame is rated to 1000ft/lbs of torque with less than +/-.25" of deviation.


  Wow thats like 1 mm of flex at 1000LBs of torque,quite impressive!

 Personally I'd be more inclined to build a speedster but there's no replacement for displacement!!!




     :salute

Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #196 on: February 16, 2011, 04:52:02 PM »

  Wow thats like 1 mm of flex at 1000LBs of torque,quite impressive!

 Personally I'd be more inclined to build a speedster but there's no replacement for displacement!!!




     :salute

 if i did one of them, i'd keep with my small block. it won't match the brute force of the bigger engine........but it'll still be a boatload of fun.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #197 on: February 16, 2011, 05:01:47 PM »
When you can punch a small block to 460ci, a big block becomes a moot point, unless you want more cubic inches.

Of course, the practical limit to the Ford small block is really around 410ci due to rod to stroke ratios in a block with a 9" deck and 4.185 (max) bore. 

Yes, big blocks are fun.  Get more grunt at lower RPMs, which also make it much tougher to launch.  They are also heavier and more expensive to build.  There are fewer high performance parts for them as well.

I have seen my far share of Cobras flip ends due to the owner being a bit to liberal with the gas pedal.  Those small blocks really do have more than enough power to bridge street and track.


The fastest Cobra in the world is located in New Zealand.  The builder dropped in a 1200HP V12 AMG engine.  I cannot imagine what that is like to drive.
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #198 on: February 16, 2011, 05:22:08 PM »
you know everytime the lumina acted up I hooked a fuel pressure tester gauge to the fuel line and tested for pressure. Evrytime it was the fuel pump. I put a new fuel filter on(of course while it's out) and cleaned out the tank to check for debri. The problem was the pumps I was being given at the local Autozone. I asked for the $189.99 pump and was given the $59.99 pump. SEDan who used to be on the bishops is a district manager for Autozone and told me that 98.9% of theft from an Autozone store is the employee's pulling switch a roo's like they did on me. Needless to say that store has been off my list of places to go for parts forever!


Still a POS car, especially the Lumina Van
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #199 on: February 16, 2011, 05:24:28 PM »
autozone....that just answered a LOT of questions.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #200 on: February 16, 2011, 05:39:01 PM »
you know everytime the lumina acted up I hooked a fuel pressure tester gauge to the fuel line and tested for pressure. Evrytime it was the fuel pump. I put a new fuel filter on(of course while it's out) and cleaned out the tank to check for debri. The problem was the pumps I was being given at the local Autozone. I asked for the $189.99 pump and was given the $59.99 pump. SEDan who used to be on the bishops is a district manager for Autozone and told me that 98.9% of theft from an Autozone store is the employee's pulling switch a roo's like they did on me. Needless to say that store has been off my list of places to go for parts forever!


Still a POS car, especially the Lumina Van

 :rofl   Sorry, but that's some funny stuff right there.     It's the Indian, not the arrow.   The car (and I'm a Ford guy) was a very good seller/reliable car for GM.    This quoted issue was NOT the fault of the car.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2011, 05:49:56 PM »
:rofl   Sorry, but that's some funny stuff right there.     It's the Indian, not the arrow.   The car (and I'm a Ford guy) was a very good seller/reliable car for GM.    This quoted issue was NOT the fault of the car.



i'm still thinking he's from another board trolling us.

 oh yea....i nailed it in my original reply to his fuel pump problem.......take note kgb sir.  :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #202 on: February 16, 2011, 08:39:02 PM »
ok...this is kgb's answer. it's kinda long. did i miss anything?
here goes.......

the EVAP system was put in place to prevent HC emissions.

 the fuel tank venting to the atmosphere was found to be the biggest single cause of hydrocarbon emissions from a motor vehicle(actually putting gas in your car was #2, now#1).
 gasoline is a naturally cold liquid. the reason for this, i admit that i don't know, but i know it stays cold. it evaporates rather easily, and quickly. this also caused motorists to waste considerable money, as it was literally evaporating out of their cars.
 
 enter the EVAP system. early systems were pretty simple. a charcoal canister, a purge control valve, and a vent control valve. they were also operated by vacuum. it worked, but not always as it should, as evidenced by the early 80's cadillacs that had a tendency to suck the tank in on itself when something failed in the system.

 the EVAP systems main purpose is to prevent system leaks, resulting in hydrocarbons entering the atmosphere. as the fuel evaporates(from whatever cause, be it temp., moving the vehicle, etc), it is captured into the charcoal canister. it is then stored there until such time as it can be released into the engines air intake system, and burned. again, early systems worked, but not nearly as efficiently as they do today.

 they were, and still are prone to leaks. the older systems really had no way of self testing for this. the modern systems test for this often. they can/will test while the car is driving, and then can/will also test while the car is turned off and parked.
 
 the engine control system(OBD2) has several codes for the EVAP system. it can detect a leak down to smaller than .020 of an inch. these leaks are classified as small, medium, large, and gross. i forget the exact numbers, but i'm doing this out of memory.

 as fuel is taken out of the fuel tank, something must replace it. air is vented in as this happens.

again....on older systems, this was done differently. fuel filler caps were sealed to prevent leaks, but would allow air(much like a 1 way vacuum check valve) to enter. these were always the culprits on the old cadillacs i keep referring to.
 on our modern cars, this is done through the charcoal canister, hence the vent control valve on this canister.
 when the EEC wants to run a pressure or vacuum test on the system, it closes this vent valve so no air can enter, or escape.

 as much as i say bad stuff about engineers.......these engineers that have designed these systems, are top of the line in my book. they overcame a LOT of problems to figure this crap out.

 the designers on the other hand(sorry shirly) that decide that under the car directly behind the drivers side back tire is a nice place to mount this vent control valve.......well...i got a few customers that'd like to have some words with him.......

anyway.....now for a few pics......
this one is an early ford set up. i had forgotten about TAB and TAD. those things used to drive me nuts.....but i liked working on that stuff, and most other mechanics i've worked with HATED working on fords, due to the lack of data stream...so i got them.....


 this one is from an 8 mustang gt......


this one is from an f-150.....


this one brings me to something i forgot above......the LDP. some makes use the LDP(Leak Detection Pump) in order to pressurize the EVAP system, and i believe this also can pull a vacuum in it. chrysler is big on using this set up. they also go bad a LOT.


 this is just a generic pic to show a system overview.



now......i fully understand how one can make the mistake you're making. it's very easy to do. but you have to remember.......something has to enter the tank as something is removed.  if not, the tank will go to a negative pressure, and a couple of things will then happen. first off, the pump will become unable to overcome the vacuum in there, and the engine will shut down due to fuel starvation. the tank will cave in on itself. the worst one i saw, required replacement of the tank. the more common occurrence was that once you allowed air to enter, then the tank would kind of "pop" and resume its normal shape.

and finally.....earlier, you mentioned that you were staying civil towards me, and i do seriously appreciate that. these kinds of discussions can take bad nasty turns rather quickly.

 one final note too......on the fuel pump issue. look at the size of the frame mounted pumps as compared to the in-tank units. they're nearly double the size. the smaller pump cannot shed heat fast enough to be mounted outside of the tank. this is also why you'll note a higher failure rate among customers that tend to run their tanks below 1/4 of a tank.
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #203 on: February 16, 2011, 09:18:40 PM »
Don't apologize to me Laverne.  I deal with the fabricators and the people in the field every single day of my working life. 

We have a saying around my office.  'Just because it works on paper doesn't mean it's the best way to do it' :D

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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2011, 10:24:50 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:44:25 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #205 on: February 16, 2011, 10:26:30 PM »
Don't apologize to me Laverne.  I deal with the fabricators and the people in the field every single day of my working life. 

We have a saying around my office.  'Just because it works on paper doesn't mean it's the best way to do it' :D



well.....you know. i know you design stuff....and some people on this board think i generalize and mean all engineers when i put down engineers......so i figured i'd be sure to clarify that i didn't mean all designers......besides....... i dont wanna wake up with a high heel stuck in my.....uumm.........youknowhw here......

that would be an amazingly long throw, huh?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #206 on: February 16, 2011, 10:33:30 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:44:44 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #207 on: February 16, 2011, 11:02:04 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:44:56 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #208 on: February 16, 2011, 11:04:39 PM »
Ditto.   

Now if you want to put down a GM Car.    The "Quad-4" laden one's would be at the top of my list.    :aok

would you believe i have a customer with a 97 malibu equipped with a quad 4? it's got 197k miles on it. the dam car's falling apart around the engine.i friggin hate these engines myself too.......and really can't believe this one's still running. they're noisy, slow, and just generally annoying,
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Worst cars ever made
« Reply #209 on: February 16, 2011, 11:05:33 PM »
would you believe i have a customer with a 97 malibu equipped with a quad 4? it's got 197k miles on it. the dam car's falling apart around the engine.i friggin hate these engines myself too.......and really can't believe this one's still running. they're noisy, slow, and just generally annoying,

Ha!   A holdout Quad-4.   If it's still running at 197k, I'd call a Museum!    :rock
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