Magic Flaps!!

[dirtdart]

What planes besides the 38 had folwer flaps? Ki-84?  I am not sure. 

[VAMPIRE 2?]

Honestly, there really is "no flaps" issue other than the damage modeling of the flaps.  Remember that flaps are not the same for all planes, for example the Spitfire and the P-38.  Totally different flap design and function when used, on some planes flaps were to help with landing and on others to help with maneuverability.

ack-ack

same basic principle is apparent in all conventional air crafts, added lift...

and the same happens for all conventional aircraft when the flaps are deployed, ? right? 

nose pitches down

[hitech]

Can I invite Hitech to this thread to perhaps shed some light on this "flap" discussion? I mean there's no use in trying to point it out if the coding can't be changed or if it would be conflicting in a way with the other flight dynamics. I'm sure we can all agree with real life can't always be replicated in every witch way. at least not yet lol  but I'm still digging for graphs and charts but busy with other things mostly, so don't wait on me.... 

<S>   

There is not a flap issue, other then graphically displayed incorrectly when damaged, some planes pitch up and some down with flaps.
Your welcome to dig for data and post it if you believe it ours is incorrect, please do so in the Aircraft and vehicle forum. But understand , Doug and I have been doing this for 16 years. The odds on you finding better data , or data we do not have is slim.

HiTech

[VAMPIRE 2?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU6i0Ix5QvI

this is not flap related, but I am still looking

[VAMPIRE 2?]

There is not a flap issue, other then graphically displayed incorrectly when damaged, some planes pitch up and some down with flaps.
Your welcome to dig for data and post it if you believe it ours is incorrect, please do so in the Aircraft and vehicle forum. But understand , Doug and I have been doing this for 16 years. The odds on you finding better data , or data we do not have is slim.

HiTech

thank you for the response, I had no question of your knowledge,  so your saying that like in game  the mustangs nose pitches UP when the flaps are deployed...? what plane in game pitches down?

[THRASH99]

You're not making the distinction between sustained climb and zoom climb, they're two completely different animals.

Every Bf 109 we have from the F model on has a better sustained climb rate than the P51D, period.

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It climbs better than mustang, so.... just because it has better climbing doesn't mean it was never nose heavy, I can tell that I've never heard of a 109 that fell backwards tail down. A 109 is not going to win 100% of the time in all of it's climbs in fights. Sorry to go here, but if you think the 109 was so dominant, why is it that ALL of its experienced pilots had been shot down by the pony as it came into the Euro. theather? The pony in other words broke the back of the Luftwaffe, mainly to the near end of the war. Which then by that time, a couple months before the war had ended, new recruits, who were kids with inexperience/no pilot skill and who had very little hours of training, probably not even up to a day, took to the sky and probably never came back.

[Motherland]

nose heavy

I'd imagine every plane with the engine in the front is nose heavy.

but if you think the 109 was so dominant

The Bf 109 airframe was more or less obsolete by 1943

ALL of its experienced pilots had been shot down by the pony

Source please

The pony in other words broke the back of the Luftwaffe

>propaganda
The Luftwaffe was largely broken already by the time the P51 saw large scale action

[Ack-Ack]

It climbs better than mustang, so.... just because it has better climbing doesn't mean it was never nose heavy, I can tell that I've never heard of a 109 that fell backwards tail down. A 109 is not going to win 100% of the time in all of it's climbs in fights.

I do believe it was quite possible in doing a tail slide in a Bf 109 in real life.  Don't know why you bring that up to try and prove some point about substained climb rates.

Sorry to go here, but if you think the 109 was so dominant,

I don't think anyone in this thread has tried to make that claim.  Just because people have correctly stated that the Bf 109s had a better substained climb rate than the P-51D is not the same as saying the "Bf 109 is so dominant..."  A lot of planes had a better climb rate than the Mustang.

why is it that ALL of its experienced pilots had been shot down by the pony as it came into the Euro. theather?

Seriously?  I don't know where you've learned your WW2 history but where ever it was you need to find some place else.  Erich Hartmann, the highest scoring ace of all time wasn't shot down by Mustangs as were a lot of Luftwaffe aces that only saw action on the Eastern Front

The pony in other words broke the back of the Luftwaffe, mainly to the near end of the war.

No, it was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe


No one has said or implied that the Mustang was not a good plane, it clearly was.  However, as someone else noted earlier, there is a big difference between the reality of the Mustang and the image portrayed by post-war propoganda. 

ack-ack

[Babalonian]

All planes suffer this when flaps are destroyed.  To counter the roll on the dead flap side, lower the remaining flap to the same position as the damaged one and you will have full and stable control of your plane.

ack-ack

For bombers, but for single-engined fighters it can create debilitating amounts of drag to the point of unstabley flying on the edge of a stall. ( )

[THRASH99]

  Erich Hartmann, the highest scoring ace of all time wasn't shot down by Mustangs as were a lot of Luftwaffe aces that only saw action on the Eastern Front

No, it was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe

Well..you just put the most obvious answer straight of in front of me... Erich Hartmann and other aces that "only saw combat on the eastern front". I don't really know what would have happen on the western front if they went.  I will have to say that the Russian pilots were trash, even though they had good planes.

As for the P-47 breaking the Luftwaffe's back, I can see it on strafing and bombing runs, though the P-51 and P-38 I think though broke the back of the Luftwaffe in dogfighting.

[THRASH99]

I'd imagine every plane with the engine in the front is nose heavy.

Most planes in the game don't have a 2000hp engine with a 30mm in the nose

[JOACH1M]

Hans Joachim Marsielle FTW!

[Ack-Ack]

Well..you just put the most obvious answer straight of in front of me... Erich Hartmann and other aces that "only saw combat on the eastern front". I don't really know what would have happen on the western front if they went.  I will have to say that the Russian pilots were trash, even though they had good planes.

Erich Hartmann flew 5 combat missions against USAAF pilots and scored 4 kills on Mustangs. 

Your opinion of Soviet pilots is also incorrect as by 1943 and onwards, they were just as experienced and trained as the Luftwaffe pilots they faced.

As for the P-47 breaking the Luftwaffe's back, I can see it on strafing and bombing runs, though the P-51 and P-38 I think though broke the back of the Luftwaffe in dogfighting.

It wasn't until the later part of the war that the P-47 was primarily used in the ground attack role when the P-51D started to appear in numbers.  Prior to that, the Thunderbolt was the primary USAAF escort fighter.  In the first three months of 1944, when the Allies undertook major operations against German aircraft industry and Berlin, the Jug shot down more fighters than the Mustang and shot down almost half of the reported kills in the 1st 6 months of 1944.  The Jug also flew more missions than the Mustang, P-38 and P-40 combined. 

Not to belittle the contribution of the Mustang but to say that it was the plane that broke the back of the Luftwaffe is akin to laughing at the face of reality.

ack-ack

[JUGgler]

Erich Hartmann flew 5 combat missions against USAAF pilots and scored 4 kills on Mustangs. 

Your opinion of Soviet pilots is also incorrect as by 1943 and onwards, they were just as experienced and trained as the Luftwaffe pilots they faced.

It wasn't until the later part of the war that the P-47 was primarily used in the ground attack role when the P-51D started to appear in numbers.  Prior to that, the Thunderbolt was the primary USAAF escort fighter.  In the first three months of 1944, when the Allies undertook major operations against German aircraft industry and Berlin, the Jug shot down more fighters than the Mustang and shot down almost half of the reported kills in the 1st 6 months of 1944.  The Jug also flew more missions than the Mustang, P-38 and P-40 combined. 

Not to belittle the contribution of the Mustang but to say that it was the plane that broke the back of the Luftwaffe is akin to laughing at the face of reality.
ack-ack


Or to laughing in the face of a JUG 


JUGgler

[EskimoJoe]

thank you for the response, I had no question of your knowledge,  so your saying that like in game  the mustangs nose pitches UP when the flaps are deployed...? what plane in game pitches down?

IIRC, some planes pitch downwards with dive-flaps in-game(such as the SBD).