Kids

[trax1]

I wish my father had been tougher on me instead of pretty much letting me get away with anything I wanted, I decided to steal his car one night and got drunk crashing it leaving me in a wheelchair for life, I was 19 at the time and had just graduated from high school 2 weeks earlier, I think had my father been tougher on me this might not have happened.

[sntslilhlpr6601]

 i do thank god every day for the family i was given though. although i'm still far from perfect, i tremble when i think of how bad i might have done without them. the only thing i wish, is that they were still here so i could thank them myself, and tell em they were right.

Not a day goes by that I don't think the same thing of my father.

[Guppy35]

I wish my father had been tougher on me instead of pretty much letting me get away with anything I wanted, I decided to steal his car one night and got drunk crashing it leaving me in a wheelchair for life, I was 19 at the time and had just graduated from high school 2 weeks earlier, I think had my father been tougher on me this might not have happened.

Tough call.  I'm proud of my parenting.  Despite that I lost two kids in a car wreck no alcohol involved.  Sometimes stuff just happens.   I don't have any regrets that I didn't do my job, which is small comfort, but I know I didn't shortchange them. 

At 19 I gotta believe you knew right from wrong, despite Dad.

[clerick]

This topic annoys the crap out of me!

There are dopes on both sides.  One side tries to change the argument by lumping a spanking in with a close fisted punch to the gut.  The other side will try the label child abuse as "corporal punishment."  They are both equally idiotic and as in all such arguments they detract from the real issue.

A good parents needs to know when natural consequences are sufficient or when there should be additional correction.  Do you let the kid touch the hot burner and learn the "hard way" or, do you smack the hand or, do you try and reason with them? Having been in this situations (4 kids) I'm not letting my kids risk injury like that.  My boy once was hell bent on touching the grill.  First time i simply said no, but when he stared me down, little hand inching closer to the grill as I said no again, I knew he needed to understand what he was doing was wrong.  My options? Let him fry his little hand on the side of a 500 degree grill or demonstrate with a calm but swift swat to the butt? I'm sure you can guess what I chose.  You tell me, what is worse?

Like I mentioned earlier, I, in no way shape, or form condone child abuse but, don't tell me that, when properly applied, a spanking isn't an effective and humane for of correction given many of the alternatives.

flame on!

[Lusche]

     Why then, are adults allowed to hit children without punishment?

Just FYI, here in Germany they are not allowed.

[Melvin]

Children are meant to be seen and not heard.

Keep talking, and I'll pummel you.

[trax1]

Tough call.  I'm proud of my parenting.  Despite that I lost two kids in a car wreck no alcohol involved.  Sometimes stuff just happens.   I don't have any regrets that I didn't do my job, which is small comfort, but I know I didn't shortchange them. 

At 19 I gotta believe you knew right from wrong, despite Dad.

Yeah don't get me wrong, the whole thing was completely my fault, I've just wondered some times that if my father had been more strict with me that I would have never taken his car that night without him knowing, it's just that I felt like even if he found out I was taking his car I really wouldn't have gotten into any trouble to begin with, but again I do realize that it was completely 100% my fault, I've just wondered that if my dad had come down harder on me with things I would do that things might have been different.

[Banshee7]

This topic annoys the crap out of me!

There are dopes on both sides.  One side tries to change the argument by lumping a spanking in with a close fisted punch to the gut.  The other side will try the label child abuse as "corporal punishment."  They are both equally idiotic and as in all such arguments they detract from the real issue.

A good parents needs to know when natural consequences are sufficient or when there should be additional correction.  Do you let the kid touch the hot burner and learn the "hard way" or, do you smack the hand or, do you try and reason with them? Having been in this situations (4 kids) I'm not letting my kids risk injury like that.  My boy once was hell bent on touching the grill.  First time i simply said no, but when he stared me down, little hand inching closer to the grill as I said no again, I knew he needed to understand what he was doing was wrong.  My options? Let him fry his little hand on the side of a 500 degree grill or demonstrate with a calm but swift swat to the butt? I'm sure you can guess what I chose.  You tell me, what is worse?

Like I mentioned earlier, I, in no way shape, or form condone child abuse but, don't tell me that, when properly applied, a spanking isn't an effective and humane for of correction given many of the alternatives.

flame on!

I love you 

[dedalos]

     Why then, are adults allowed to hit children without punishment? (Not by the ASPCA specifically...)

Who said they are allowed?  There are laws in place about it.  However, laws are made enforced by adults so one would have to get a bit further across the line before they are enforced. 

But, no, they are not allowed.  Even without specific laws, it would fall under assault right?

[Penguin]

Penguin, your first post used syllogism.  Syllogisms as you used em are fallacious.  Look it up for yourself.I didn't argue we're all merely animals, you did.

Let me draw it for you (not to scale):
_____________________________ _____________________________ _________
|                                              Animals                                                  |
|Humans                   |
|Children|

Trace the path back, children are in fact animals.  Why are some animals availible for beatings, (not as in the example of not letting your child touch a hot grill by slapping their butt, but by, as one poster noted, a "steady stream of knuckle sandwiches), but not others.

To clarify what I am against, I am against using violence as not a last resort, but the first option in punishment.

-Penguin

[BowHTR]

Let me draw it for you (not to scale):
_____________________________ _____________________________ _________
|                                              Animals                                                  |
|Humans                   |
|Children|

Trace the path back, children are in fact animals.  Why are some animals availible for beatings, (not as in the example of not letting your child touch a hot grill by slapping their butt, but by, as one poster noted, a "steady stream of knuckle sandwiches), but not others.

To clarify what I am against, I am against using violence as not a last resort, but the first option in punishment.

-Penguin

So, instead, we should send our kids to their room for timeout, and the kid might do the same thing again see that the punishment was bad; OR we could just give 'em a spanking and then they wont do it again.

[dedalos]

So, instead, we should send our kids to their room for timeout, and the kid might do the same thing again see that the punishment was bad; OR we could just give 'em a spanking and then they wont do it again.

Are saying that if you spank them they don;t do it again?  If that was true we would have had a perfect world now.  All it would have taken would have been a few spankings early in life.  I never had to spank mine and have no problems what so ever. 

I don;t think the OP is talking about a spanking here and there.  Don;t defend beatings by making them sound like spankings.  Most of the guys in the other thread talked about bellybutton kicking and knuckle sandwiches getting knocked out etc.  Shouldn't you know that that is elegal?

[BowHTR]

When someone states a "Arse beating" that could be a variety of different things. An "Arse kicking/knuckle sandwiches" isn't necessarily "illegal" either, in the state of Georgia.

Article 5

Cruelty to Children

16-5-70 Cruelty to Children
(a) A parent, guardian, or other person supervising the welfare of having immediate charge or custody of a child under the age of 18 commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person willfully deprives the child of necessary sustenance to the extent that the child's health or well-being is jeopardized.

(b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

(c) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person with criminal negligence causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

[Saurdaukar]

False, all mortals are not ducks. 

He is demonstrating the flaw in your logic.

[moot]

My boy once was hell bent on touching the grill.  First time i simply said no, but when he stared me down, little hand inching closer to the grill as I said no again, I knew he needed to understand what he was doing was wrong.  My options? Let him fry his little hand on the side of a 500 degree grill or demonstrate with a calm but swift swat to the butt? I'm sure you can guess what I chose.  You tell me, what is worse?

What's worse is the impossibly small margin of error in letting him see for himself (the root of the nonviolent reasoning approach to parenting) that the grill is hot as hell, by letting his hand touch it for long enough, but not too long either.
My little brother (6 years younger) once did this with a clothes iron set to near-max temp. Most of his hand was inhumanly swollen for a while. He learned his lesson..  There's no better way to teach than to let someone "see for themselves".   

Let me draw it for you (not to scale):
_____________________________ _____________________________ _________
|                                              Animals                                                  |
|Humans                   |
|Children|

Trace the path back, children are in fact animals.  Why are some animals availible for beatings, (not as in the example of not letting your child touch a hot grill by slapping their butt, but by, as one poster noted, a "steady stream of knuckle sandwiches), but not others.

To clarify what I am against, I am against using violence as not a last resort, but the first option in punishment.

-Penguin

He is demonstrating the flaw in your logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism