newbie place

[F6Fraven]

The best way to get a good feel for the game is to fly offline for a year or more(shooting drones and flying through hangars) and then go online. That way you already know how to shoot accurately, perform basic maneuvers, and basically get a good feel for how the planes fly. When you go online after a year+ you can focus on dogfighting and angles, rather than trying to learn everything at once. I've helped quite a few people out in the DA, I can't help someone make progress in a dogfight, which involves advanced flying skills and reflexes, before they can at lease handle a plane proficiently.

[DREDIOCK]

We have a newbie place, it's called the dueling arena. You can use the stall limiter and external views to make it easier when you're starting out. We also have a newbie place called the training arena where, in addition to the stall limiter and F3 view, bullets don't damage your plane and people are willing to help newbies learn what they need to learn.

These places real popular with the newbies these days?

Thats only a semi sarcastic comment. Its sarcasm in and that Neither of those arenas seem to have a ton of people in them. The DA seems to be dominated by Vets which places new players at an even greater peril because of the external views are available to be used and abused by vets as well.
 And the TA rarely has more then a few in it and often not even that. In either case Stall limiter is a wash because its also available in the MA as well.

Its also not sarcasm. because I see your a trainer and as such you would be in a better position to tell us what kind of percentage of Newbs come for training.

The beauty of a newb arena is that they can be exposed to an MA type environment and really shoot people down unlike the TA. but be up against people with a similar skill set and not against people so far up the skill ladder that they seem almost like gods. Which is what they would face in the DA or MA.

Your TA would still be available for advanced training. It would probobly become more popular as people would be able to see the natural progression. and your job would be easier as you wouldnt have to concentrate on the basics of flight

People come here to try and kill things, Thats whats fun. not shooting rubber bullets at each other.. That is why I think the TA isnt as popular as it could be with the newbies. And most people aren't going to first seek out a trainer when they first get here. They are going to want to see if they can do it themselves. Thats just the nature of people in general. Not just here but anywhere.

The TA is very useful once you have a feel for the game and want to improve your skillset without having to land and rearm all the time. but for a newb. They just want some action now. It takes time before many see the benefit of  the TA. And many never do.

I say keep the TA but also add the Newb arena as I suggest. But rename both to make each more appealing. Then by the time they enter either one of the MAs or the DA they have some experience under their belt which will give them that boxers chance.

[DREDIOCK]

you guys ever stop and think that perhaps the new guys are a few a week and not hundreds.  so you put all the noobs in one arena and well look at ew, ww1,  ava.  they will be there by themselves.


semp

We dont know. HTC hasnt made us privy to those numbers

[DREDIOCK]

Hmmmm....

"Training Arena" would to me be the obvious place to go if I were brand new and didn't know anything about the AH2 world.  Whether I new there was no damage or not, I would go there for some "training".   

To us us it would seem obvious. I dont think so so much to a newb. And I think the very name "training arena" May have a small part to do with it. Alot may feel it carries some sort of stigma with it of inadequacy that one might need...training.

Course those of us who have been here a while see the benefit of such a place. But most newbs just want to jump in and get some sort of action But this game lacks the entry level hook that most other games have where they start off easy and get progressively harder. Those first couple levels is often what makes or breaks a game as its those levels that either get the player "hooked" Or they dont.

The TA has no hook factor. Its great for being trained once you have a basic idea of what your doing.
The DA is like the MA in that your automatically subjected to level 110 difficulty level with most of the adversaries your going against.
A Newb arena would make a nice hook because they could actually play the game. but not be subjected to level 110 because nobody is at level 110

[DREDIOCK]

The "noob arena" will be just like the DA.  All the noobs will learn from each other is how to point their plane at another plane and hold the trigger down - hoping to kill the other guy before running into his propeller.  They can't learn BFM - let alone any ACM - from each other if nobody in there knows anything.  Ever hear of the saying "the blind leading the blind"? 

reread my suggestion. I had already thought of this and made a provision for it to allow a limited number of vets into the arena and spread out among all sides to keep it fair albeit with dumbed down ammo so as not to abuse their power  but to help teach the game.

There the Vets could organise missions which would help in teaching the game itself as well as the very basics of ACM . They could also promote and encourage use of the TA and their trainers to learn more advanced skills.

Just like in the military you first learn to be a soldier before you learn more specialized training. Gotta learn to crawl before you can walk

[ImADot]

reread my suggestion.

Sorry I didn't read the wall-of-text quote in the OP, so I didn't realize that wall of text came from you.  I was just commenting on the thread title and what PuppetZ said.

If this could be made to work, I see it as a good thing.

[FLS]

Perhaps the TA in AH serves the same function as the newbie arena in AW with veterans and trainers helping newbies and the lack of damage and scoring limiting the baby seal clubbing.

[Vudu15]

+1 to what Drediock said.

[FLS]

Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.

Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena.   

[DREDIOCK]

Perhaps the TA in AH serves the same function as the newbie arena in AW with veterans and trainers helping newbies and the lack of damage and scoring limiting the baby seal clubbing.

No offense but it sounds to me like someone is concerned that their job is being undermined.

There is no comparison between the AW newbie arena and the TA here. Its apples and oranges

Other comparisons would be that in AW the newbie arena was actually used pretty extensively. Here. Not so much. Of those that come to AH, try it then leave. How many seek out trainers or use the TA before they leave? I'd be willing to bet its but a fraction of those that come and dont stay. You would know better then I but I'd be wiling to bet that the TA is used mostly by folks who have been here past the free two weeks.

People by nature dont want to be "trained" right off the bat, And they dont want No damage or no score. They want to jump right in and play, set planes on fire and watch things go boom.  Especially if they are only getting it free for two weeks. Now Im not saying that two weeks free needs to be changed. Nor is it a complaint about it. But they arent going to in their mind "waste" time from their two weeks to be trained. They want to jump in and just play against other people unencumbered by a trainer.

Again. A Newbie arena would allow them to play in an MA type setting where they really can shoot and blow up other people against those people who are close to their skill level because everyone there is a newbie. And without being little more then a baby seal because Vets, cept for trainers would not be allowed in.
By the time a newbie gets to the level where his opponents become baby seals. His score should be reflective of that. And at which point he would be forced to migrate to either the TA. Where you would reside for further and more structured and advanced training. Or to the MA.

To prevent MA regulars from heading to the newbie arena. Allowance into the Newbie arena could be determined by how much time one has spent in the MA.
Say, 3 weeks. Once you have spent 3 weeks in the MA you would no longer be allowed into the Newbie Arena and instead would be referred to by way of pop up suggestion to the TA.

Example of such a message
                                      "You have exceeded your time allotment in the main arena for admission to the Newb arena.
                                       For further and more advanced training. which will result in a better gaming experience
                                        It is strongly suggested you try the TA where trainers are available to help you"

[DREDIOCK]

Sorry I didn't read the wall-of-text quote in the OP, so I didn't realize that wall of text came from you.  I was just commenting on the thread title and what PuppetZ said.

If this could be made to work, I see it as a good thing.

As frustrating as I know walls of text can be. Sometimes they are worth reading in their entirety because the OP may have thought of and included
Many of the details.

[DREDIOCK]

Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.

Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena.  

But nobody is suggesting a RR arena. Even a Newb arena isnt being suggested as an RR arena. Certainly not from a flying/flight model standpoint which was the primary difference between RR and FR.
The only thing I suggested be dumbed down is Pilot wounds, collisions ( at which point I suggested a warning message) and some of the damage absorbed

Why are you behaving so paranoid about this suggestion?
If anything it enhances your importance

[FLS]

Drediock the time I volunteer to help people in AH has nothing to do with my job. I'm disappointed that you'd accuse me of being paranoid and having concerns about my importance simply because I don't support your suggestions.

[PuppetZ]

OK guys, please let's keep this civil. On my OP I was supporting the idea which came from DREDIOCK on another thread because as a recent newb myself, I feel that I was thrown in the game without so much of a pointer as to how the game worked. I already had a basic grasp of flying thanks to my time on Flight simulator but no military flight sim experience. I joined in. Saw TA with 3 people, told myself hey i wanna pick up a fight not goof around searching for 3 people on a map. Remember, I have no idea about bar-dar,dot-dar, vulching, caping, porking, hordes, acm, bfm or even how the game works, where to go to pick a fight, how to approach a fight even less about E management. I just know I'm trying that game out and I wanna blow something up. It's easy to assume that people know as much as we do but it's almost never the case.

you guys ever stop and think that perhaps the new guys are a few a week and not hundreds.  so you put all the noobs in one arena and well look at ew, ww1,  ava.  they will be there by themselves.


semp

In my understanding of business, it make it only more important to retain those potential customer since there is (potentially) so few of them.

Again I say it, this is all about retention. If it's so rare that someone will 'walk in', it is all the more critical that they are kept hooked.

The trainer corp certainly serve a purpose in the game. As would a place like the beginner's arena where noobs could have their fun while figuring out for themselves BFM and basic ACM. Then the trainer would get to take relay with those that, coming out of the noob arena, would like to enhance their skill. A message in-game could point them that way.

Also, I believe that a few in-game pointer would go a long way in reducing this feeling of being at a complete loss when faced with a rather cold and hard interface that is not really self-explanatory.

Certainly the concept is not perfect but i think it deserve some thought before being dismissed on the basis of simplistic argument and assumption of data that only HTC possess.

Respecfully.

[FLS]

The help files, FAQ, and trainer's page is a good place for a newbie to start. Learning air combat from other newbies is likely to load you up with misinformation that makes real learning more difficult. I doubt anyone forced you to enter the arenas unprepared.  If people choose to jump right in to the main arenas they will probably do so even if you have an attractively named newbie arena. You suggest staffing 2 arenas with volunteers when the training arena is already empty at times. How much time are you willing to commit to helping people?