newbie place

[waystin2]

I do not think a new pilot place is required.  From the moment that I first started my subscription I was in the Late War Mains.  I never spent time with a trainer(although I highly recommend this), I just read everything I could get my hands on, asked questions in the Help Forums, and kept upping and going after red guys.  If you make it too easy, there could be a culture shock when they are exposed to the actual chaos and destruction of the Main arenas.

[DREDIOCK]

Drediock the time I volunteer to help people in AH has nothing to do with my job. I'm disappointed that you'd accuse me of being paranoid and having concerns about my importance simply because I don't support your suggestions.

I meant your job as an AH trainer. Not IRL. Sorry for the misunderstanding
Maybe your not. And maybe its just me. But to me it just looks like your coming off that way.

Answer me this though. Of all the newbs that pass through. Whats the percentage that seek out trainers or the TA itself in that free two week period?

Near as I can tell from the outside looking in. Only a minute percentage. And I'd be willing to wager an even smaller percentage that come. Get turned off by the learning curve or from getting clubbed  and then leave. Ever even bother trying the TA.

All my suggestion does is provide them with a way to get their feet wet and perhaps stay a little longer then they otherwise would have. Long enough to begin to consider  the TA.

[DREDIOCK]

Duplicate post. Net lag

[PuppetZ]

FLS : Believe me when I say I want in no way diminish the dedicated work you do, probably on a daily basis, to teach us, unbelievers, BFM and ACM. I'm in no way ungrateful for your and other trainer's dedication. As for the time I might be inclined to dedicate to train other people, I don't believe that, for now at least, I could teach anything to anyone except maybe what NOT to do. Maybe I could try to teach the basic tough if anyone ask. I've been told many times that I should be a teacher in RL. I'd be really happy to share with anyone what little I have to offer in terms of flying skill and flight physics.

So let's leave it at that for now. Any further discussion on the subjet is IMHO futile since only HTC has all the data that would grant us all the light on the subject so I'll just drop it.

No bad feeling here. I hope to see you around TA. If you see me say hello. Maybe you can teach a trick or two to a not so young anymore dog.

[PuppetZ]

DOUBLE POST

[PuppetZ]

TRIPLE POST

[PuppetZ]

QUADRUPLE POST

Maybe we should have a cap (ahem) on these post thingy 

[DREDIOCK]

I do not think a new pilot place is required.  From the moment that I first started my subscription I was in the Late War Mains.  I never spent time with a trainer(although I highly recommend this), I just read everything I could get my hands on, asked questions in the Help Forums, and kept upping and going after red guys.  If you make it too easy, there could be a culture shock when they are exposed to the actual chaos and destruction of the Main arenas.

And I would be in full 100% agreement if thats what everyone else tended to do as well.

[waystin2]

And I would be in full 100% agreement if thats what everyone else tended to do as well.

Noted Drediock.  Unfortunately you are correct.  Most will not spend the time to research, learn, and practice to become successful.  Successful is used loosely as it has a wide range of what folks consider to be "successful" in the Main arenas(ie-1 v 1's, bombing, furballing, GV'ing, score potatoing, etc.)

[FLS]

Tip: If your post doesn't show right away do not try to resend it.  

Drediock  AH is my hobby and the time I volunteer to help people can hardly be threatened by any additional training assets. The only thing that could happen is I would have more time to fly in the other arenas. I don't mind you attacking my ideas just stay on point.

I have no way of knowing how many newbies seek out training. It's possible that everyone that can't get off the ground in the main arenas goes to the TA. I do know that sometimes there are more people requesting help than I have time for. Other times I'm in there and nobody needs anything.

Hitech knows as much as any of us about what was good about AW. I'm sure he has his reasons why we don't have a newbie arena. Maybe he'll decide that AH needs something for the people seeking instant gratification.

I understand your intent. I don't agree that an additional arena needing additional volunteers for guidance is the best way to achieve your goals.

Edit: IIRC the newbie arena in AW was at a time when AW was free for AOL subscribers and AOL was the biggest ISP. That may have been a prime reason for the population of the newbie arena and newbie retention for the RR arena.

Puppet it's easy to suggest a solution where other people volunteer to make it work.  
You don't have to be an ACM expert to help a newbie set up their mouse and get off the ground. As long as you don't try to teach something you don't know you'll be fine. I'm not saying that you shouldn't wish for a beginner's arena or that you need to help train people but if you want to help newbies the opportunities are available.

[PuppetZ]

Puppet it's easy to suggest a solution where other people volunteer to make it work. 
You don't have to be an ACM expert to help a newbie set up their mouse and get off the ground. As long as you don't try to teach something you don't know you'll be fine. I'm not saying that you shouldn't wish for a beginner's arena or that you need to help train people but if you want to help newbies the opportunities are available.

I think I'll do just that. If I help even 1 guy a week get off the ground, I think I can make my part to make this community even greater.

I don't like when people say I sit idle while they do all the job  (don't panic I'm not offensed in the least  )

REPORTING FOR DUTY SIR 

[Ack-Ack]

Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.

Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena.   

While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment.  People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.

ack-ack

[Wiley]

While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment.  People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.

ack-ack

I agree with your sentiment, Ack-Ack.  One of my favorite sayings is "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect."  Practicing improperly only results in the reinforcement of bad habits.

The thing is, I don't think the main benefit of having a newbie arena is necessarily increasing the capability of the individuals in it.  Sure, those who are inclined to do so will seek the resources to get better.

What the newbie arena would do instead is give people an environment where they're not going to wind up running into a squad of top-shelf sticks and getting slapped around repeatedly.  Ideally, they'd be in an arena with some people with similar skill levels to themselves, and have a chance to get a feel for flying around and shooting at people and see how much fun it is.  Obviously, you're going to have the dolts who are experienced flight simmers running around slapping them down, but it should be possible to police that for the most part by looking at score etc.

Now of course, it's only delaying the fact that as you say, nothing can prepare you for the MA.  If you go in there having never been in a similar situation before, you're going to spend a lot of time reappearing in tower wondering what got you.  The thing is, if you had some of those warm fuzzies at first in the newbie arena, some people might be more inclined to tough it out and learn what they need to to get better.  Some won't, will still think the guys that slapped them around in the MA are cheaters, and leave in a huff.

Would there be enough of the new people who would find it attractive to go to a relatively unpopulated newbie arena versus logging in with another 200 people in one of the MA's?  I don't think so, and believe that's quite possibly why there isn't one, but I could be wrong.

Wiley.

[FLS]

While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment.  People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.

ack-ack

I'm not suggesting it's the same environment. I'm saying it's a better place to learn aircraft control, takeoff and landing, BFM, ACM, gunnery, brevity comms, tactical formations, and weapons employment. People used to flying around the training arena typically aren't in a structured training program.

[moot]

Now that I think about it, I can't remember a better autonomous setup (ie where it's all players like in the OP, not the TA that depends on trainers) to get a handle on dogfighting than the old H2H rooms with small furball maps like HtHide's.