How to think about a many to one fight

[hyzer]

I dive into way too much red for my own good and try and get into as many fights as possible and as a consequence rarely land kills.  It's a given that I'm not looking to only engage with an advantage, although if I do hold the upper hand I certainly try and use it.

Given the above suicidal tendencies, how do you think about a many to one fight and live long enough to have some fun?  My usual ride is an F4U-1a.

Assuming I've lived through the first dive through the horde what is an efficient way to reverse on a bogy that is coalt in a tail chase in order to reengage the fight?

I figure in order to get good I need to be willing to die, allot, and see lots of situations develop and play out.  So far the dieing part is working out perfectly.

[jododger]

In a multiple con fight, try to get them nose to tail (noes to tail is both cons in about the space in trail).  One way to accomplish this is by merging with the second con and let the first con go this will force them together or one to disengage both outcomes are good for you at this point.  I will usually decide which one is more danger for me based on the plane, pilot,E, or guns.  Next fly defensively try to keep as much E as possible and ALWAYS look for an opportunity to go on the offensive.

[waystin2]

I always try to get and keep the multiple cons on one side of my aircraft(right, left, above, below, front,  etc.).  By the way, all of them behind you is good if you have E, it's bad if you are slow.    As Dodger says keep your E up making defensive adjustements to your flight path, and wait for a mistake.  When you see one of them slip up, you pounce on the offensive.  Otherwise just keep having fun...

[Wraith_TMS]

Maybe this will help?  A few months ago, the Muskies were discussing our differing approaches to just this question, and our CO, Rapier (an AH trainer, btw) chimed in with a nice recap of how he sizes up a fight.  I thought his response was a useful tip for anyone, so I made it into an article on our website.  Find it here:  http://www.musketeers.org/?p=191
 
FWIW,

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[hyzer]

Thanks for the quick replies, all good stuff.  Great article Wraith, bookmarked it 

[SPKmes]

if they are all really hungry for the kill, get low, near the deck...you can usually get a couple through proxie before you go 

[Wraith_TMS]

:

Thanks for the quick replies, all good stuff.  Great article Wraith, bookmarked it 

  Hyzer.  Hope it helps! 

BTW, Rap's got several training articles in the training section on our site.  He wrote most of them years ago but the topics are timeless and rely on principles that are applicable in any air combat game (e.g., e-fighting, turn fighting, gunnery, etc.).

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[Big Rat]

Reversing into a bogie on your 6 co alt and CO E or better, really depends on the distance you have to work with.  Anything inside of 2K, rule anything going up in the verticle out.  You'll be an easy target as the con cuts the corner and has you siloeted(sp?) against a nice blue sky.  Inside 2k you want to try and break low into a bandit.  First order of business is to deny the shot, by breaking low into the bandit, you force them to either try and push their nose over for a shot or force them to invert and pull down for a shot, either case they are trying to pull a lot of lead for a shot with you against the ground clutter.  The more under the nose you go in this break the harder and less time they will have to line up a shot.  If they invert and try to pull down into you they are giving you a nice chance for a barrel roll defence and reversal, since they will most likely be faster then you.  If they high YOYO when you do the low break, BEWARE, you just picked up a vet.  Not all is lost however.  Simply use the time they are going verticle to extend in a slow climb, keeping yourself with plenty of E to still manuever hard if needed.  If given enough room you can reset the fight again.

 
BigRat   

[hyzer]

Nice summary BigRat, just what I was looking for.  I've been doing more of a chandelle thinking I needed the alt to work with.  Since it wasn't working and instead of repeating the same mistake and expecting a new result I figured I needed to ask.  Thanks all who took the time to reply.   

[JUGgler]

Treat the many as one 



JUGgler

[BnZs]

Treat the many as one 



JUGgler

It is said a Shaolin can walk through walls...

[PFactorDave]

And of course, there is no spoon...

[hyzer]

Ok, let me see if I got this.  First break low into the trailing bandit by channeling Kwai Chang Caine, then once thru the wall pull a Neo and bend the spoon that isn't really there, then have a cookie.   FLS never mentioned all this when he schooled me a couple of weeks ago.  Is this the secret move?   

[FLS]

Hyzer the initial lesson doesn't include everything.

There are many test chambers, then you get cake.

[Wiley]

The cake may be spurious, or even a lie.

BigRat's breakdown is really it in a nutshell.  Nicely put.

As was stated before, the ideal is to keep them both on the same side of you whenever possible, that way you only have to solve for 1 set of angles.  To me, that's treating the many as one, although there might be some 'universal consciousness' meaning there, I'm not going to delve into that particular philosophical bent.

The alternative is to be avoiding them in such a way that have no shot when they make their passes, but I can't begin to describe how to do that beyond 'aim your defensive moves to put you in a better offensive position on the second bandit'.  The good thing about the main arena is, most of the time you're being attacked by multiple guys who aren't coordinating that well so it makes it somewhat easier to keep them bunched up a lot of the time.

The one that's going to be difficult to defend against is the guy that breaks off high when he sees you're covered by his buddies, and starts cutting the corner of the direction you're headed.  He's probably setting up for a fast pass while the other guys try to keep you turning and low E.

Fighting outnumbered is pretty much the hardest thing to do in the game.  The slower you get, the harder it gets.  When I'm working a crowd, I keep it fast for as long as possible.  Turnfighting is suicide if there's more than 2 of them, for me.  I've had a couple of successful runs in 4 years where I was able to survive for a while against 4 or 5 guys actively trying to kill me when I was slow, but I attribute most of that to luck and poor planning on their part than my own mad skills.

The only other thing I think is worth mentioning, is if the bandit that's within 400 yards in front of you hasn't maneuvered significantly for a second or two, check six as you're most likely about to be shot by his buddy.

Wiley.