Author Topic: Diary of a Noob  (Read 4878 times)

Offline Hoff

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Diary of a Noob
« on: April 01, 2011, 12:28:58 AM »
     I figure the best way for me to learn ASAP is to record every flight and keep the ones that I find interesting or confusing. I will use this thread to keep track of my progress and to pose questions and present films to the community for help. This thread will be my daily diary so that I can see my progress and therefore not lose my motivation to get better. This thread will also be useful for anyone else in my situation that is stuck in the same spot that I am. I always found it to be useful to track my progress when I was doing strength and conditioning for sports, I figure the same will hold true for learning how to dogfight. I'll attempt to list one good thing I do each day and one bad thing I do each day. I will also post at least one film for each day. With that being said; let's get down to business:


Start Date: March 31, 2011

Day 1:

     Today I had some good fights and landed a few good missions, but also ran into some trouble. I discovered that when someone gets dead six on me with roughly the same speed, I am dead. In a FW190 I can counter this by making it very hard to hit me as I extend away by abusing the fast roll speed and doing very short flat scissors. In the P38 the roll rate just doesn't cut it so I need to figure out how to defend against someone dead six. Alternative methods that I tried were going into the vertical, snap rolls, barrel rolls, and flat turns. Vertical, barrel rolls, and flat turns exposed my giant body as an easy target during the maneuvers while the snap roll did have some decent success, but still resulted in getting shot up.

Good: Rope a Dope, Drag and Bag
Bad: Gunnery, Finishing Rope a Dope, Angles
Film: Click

Day 2:

     TBA

Good:
Bad:
Film:

Offline badhorse

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 10:09:45 AM »
Good luck Hoff and welcome to the addiction.
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Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2011, 12:44:20 PM »
I don't know if it will help you Hoff, but you might need to make a concerted effort to learn the capabilities of the planes that you face off against.  I think I killed you once yesterday, and forgive me if I am remembering a different sortie, but I believe you went vertical attempting to rope me.  I was flying a Ki84, a great climber that can also just about hang on its prop, and followed you up and hung there while I gave you lead poisoning.  The better you learn your opponents capabilites the easier it will be to judge energy states and know better what you can get away with.   :salute

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Offline Soulyss

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 12:57:14 PM »
Few notes I took after watching the film a couple times.

00:35 Anticipate the cons flight path.  Here we see two bishops chasing a friendly (knight) he pitches up and then turns right, towards you.  The bishops are likely going to follow him which leads to tough front quarter shot on the P-47 which is under your nose.  As soon as the friendly rolled and pulled down and towards you I probably would have just aborted my attack and pulled up to save some of the my alt, and reassessed the situation.  If the 51 continued to extend you may have been able to make an attack on it with a higher percentage shot or before he has a chance to rebuilt a lot energy.  Or at the very least the attack direction would have taken me away from the the rest of the cons in the area.

As is you did the next best thing which was you didn't surrender too much airspeed.  If you pause the film immediately after your shot on the P-47 you'll see 1 friendly and 5 bishop/enemy in icon range. 

01:30 I think this is where the sortie starts to unravel a bit.  Under the circumstances you're not going to catch that P-51 before he gets to his friends, and you're chasing him directly towards his field.  I think a better options would have been to let him go and maintain some speed and alt, when you're low and there are that many people around even with speed it's too easy to get your energy bled out and in trouble.  As is you soon run into Ghi who is a very skilled player, such encounters usually end poorly.  :)

02:00 Another high point here you begin a rope attempt which despite a couple hits get's you position on the LA7, Ghi is a very good shot so I would treat this as a positive rather than worry about getting plinked a couple times. 

02:50 You don't press for a shot here, which is a good idea.  The LA7 is breaking hard and is considerably slower than you are, if you continued to try and pull lead you would have played right into his hands.  Instead you break off the attack and pull up which was the right move, the problem comes when you quickly roll and pull back down into him.  You're still substantially faster than him and now heading downhill, conversely he is slow and pulling up.  He get's behind your 3/9 line and get's more hits this time with damage.  At this point with elevator damage that will limit your maneuvering and heading directly towards their base your options are somewhat limited.  I would probably try to use the one thing I had going for me in this case which is you're still packing a good deal of speed and I would try to find a way to get to some friendlies which admittedly would be hard because you'd have to fly through more cons to get to them, but the other speed option is to head out to sea where the LA7 would eventually catch you after a long chase.  As is you make a pretty hard turn and I can guess it's to avoid the two scenario's I just painted but as is that just bleeds speed and let's him catch you quicker.

To address your question about what to do with someone inside gun range and with a low closure rate, there are couple things you can try but at this point it's essentially desperation time.  Obviously the best thing to do is keep them from getting there in the first place, but assuming we're past the point and assuming that you have some speed to work with there are two things that I try to do.  One is I try to get out of sync with them, since they're going for guns you pretty much know what they are going to do and where they are going to point their nose.  As I mentioned above about anticipating your opponents moves, anytime you know what they are going to do next you can try and exploit that.  So I will roll and pull either right or left all the while watching them when I see that they are starting to roll to match my lift vector now it's time to go in a different direction, you want to keep them out of sync with you, at the same time I'm trying to create as much of a speed difference as I can in a very short period of time.  Lots of rudder, aggressive throttle work, throw out the anchor.  This may solve the immediate problem, keep them from getting a guns solution but you're not out of the woods, I also start screaming for help because basically all I'm doing with all this is buying time.  Even if I get him off my dead six if the other guy knows what he's doing at all he's still in the drivers seat and I'm still in very deep trouble.  One thing you would need to do in the above scenario is keep your eyes on the opponent.  Looking back while flying and maneuvering is a little awkward at first but like most things get's easier with practice.

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I blame mir.

Offline Hoff

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 01:34:30 PM »
I tend to get angry at runners (especially when I'm in the p38) so I go into tunnel vision mode when I see them. It was probably a bad idea, but I didn't think I was going to survive very long anyways with how many enemy were in the area, I just wanted to get some practice in. So, if I would've continued to climb a little longer it would've worked out better vs. the LA7? Also, I tried to drop the anchor and it made me die faster, but as you said, the object is to make it so that situation doesn't happen. Thanks for the analysis, I really appreciate it. I tend to be a little more in the moment in game so I often complain about stuff fairly vocally (I try not to, but it's difficult). On the forums I've had a chance to review my footage and have a civilized discussion about it, so I appreciate you putting up with me in game.

I look forward to some more flying today after I finish my classes, hopefully I can get at least one good film.

Offline Soulyss

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 03:19:33 PM »
Assuming the goal is to score some kills and safely return to base, I would be probably been a little more conservative in my tactics considering the numbers involved, the knights had E but looked to be outnumbered and fighting that close to the bish base means that any bish who is shot down is going to be back in the fight really quickly. 

Since most of the knights had alt that just means that a low knight is going to be jumped on that much quicker because he'll effectively be the only target.  What that means is you need to stay out of that situation, situational awareness is as much about knowing where your help is and what they're doing as knowing where the cons are, gathering all that information and then picking the correct tactics. 

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I blame mir.

Offline Hoff

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 12:07:03 AM »
Day 2:

     Today I had quite a few good fights and after watching Agent360's narrated videos again I decided to try a few of his maneuvers out and surprisingly found them to work (could be that my opponents weren't good enough to get guns on me). I felt like I did much better with regards to defensive maneuvering and SA. I know I was chasing too much, but I really have a hatred for runners. I did HO a couple times, but I felt that under the circumstances, it was acceptable. Overall, I felt pretty good and felt like I definitely made a little progress. I am posting three videos today with about 20 minutes of total film time (a lot of which is just me chasing and keeping tabs on enemies) and I greatly appreciate any analysis. I figure data overload is better than lack of data for people to help me out with.

Good: Defensive Maneuvers, SA
Bad: Gunnery, Chasing (Although I'd probably chase them across the map no matter what)
Film: One - Two - Three






On a side note; Is there no way to edit my original post so that I can keep it nice and clean?

Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 05:30:17 AM »
On a side note; Is there no way to edit my original post so that I can keep it nice and clean?

No. You can edit your post within a certain time frame (I think it could
be around ~1hour after making the post), but after that time frame
expires the post is locked in as is.

Next to where the 'quote' button is located, you will see a 'modify' option
on a newly created post.
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline Traveler

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 12:56:16 PM »
Day 2:



When I first watched the film I had hope for you, only to soon to understand that you have not changed  what has become a very bad habit.
I only watched film one from day two.   Having watched your other posts I find a pattern to your game play.  While I read your posts stating that you would like to wing up, you have yet to post a flim of you winged or even supporting another countrymen.  The pick of the F4 was nicely done.  I'm thinging he's at least supporting other Knights, only to watch you break off you attack on throw Kikbt to the wind .  You purposely brook off he attack and failed to clear his six.  That's at about a 1.30 into the film.  Again no check 6's from you.  

Your learning a bad habit.   It may already be to late.  Bad habits are very very hard to correct.  You have one.  You are one of the many players that never give a check 6.  How can you ever expect to wing up and cover a wing man  if you never learn how to do that.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 03:28:34 PM by Traveler »
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Offline Hoff

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 01:46:45 PM »

When I first watched the film I had hope for you, only to soon to understand that you have not changed a what has become a very bad habit.
I only watched film one from day two.   Having watched your other posts I find a pattern to your game play.  While I read your posts stating that you would like to wing up, you have yet to post a flim of you winged or even supporting another countrymen.  The pick of the F4 was nicely done.  I'm thinging he's at least supporting other Knights, only to watch you break off you attack on throw Kikbt to the wind .  You purposely brook off he attack and failed to clear his six.  That's at about a 1.30 into the film.  Again no check 6's from you. 

Your learning a bad habit.   It may already be to late.  Bad habits are very very hard to correct.  You have one.  You are one of the many players that never give a check 6.  How can you ever expect to wing up and cover a wing man  if you never learn how to do that.

I agree that I don't call check 6, I'm too busy worrying about getting better currently. In the other thread I mentioned that I don't want to wing up because I feel it is a crutch and will only slow down my learning. I ALWAYS go for the target that is the most threatening to my team. I may not call check 6 but you can bet your bellybutton I'll try to clear it. In the first video I was going way too fast to follow him in his dive. If I kept following I would've compressed into the ground. I tried to yo-yo, I just didn't do it fast enough/correctly.

Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 01:52:28 PM »
I agree that I don't call check 6, I'm too busy worrying about getting better currently.

Pfft...  BS

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Offline FLS

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 02:07:12 PM »
A check 6 call is a gift not an obligation. That's why we thank people for them. The obligation is to check your own 6.

Offline shiv

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 03:22:59 PM »
A check 6 call is a gift not an obligation. That's why we thank people for them. The obligation is to check your own 6.

This ^^.  Should be on a plaque in the tower.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.


Offline Traveler

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 03:50:01 PM »
A check 6 call is a gift not an obligation. That's why we thank people for them. The obligation is to check your own 6.

I agree, everyone is responsible for there own six, however I also believe that flying habits once learned both good and bad are very hard to change.  He's learning to be a loan wolf, he's learning to not give check 6's and   I've yet to see a thank you from him for any of the check 6's I've seen him receive. 

 He also states in several posts that he wanted to wing up.  His words, not mine.  I realize that he hasn't learned to control his speed and that's where flying with a wingman or flying with a trainer would help him.  A lot of us that prefer the P38 have learned to control its speed, the L, his preferred ride,  has Speed breaks, lots of flaps and can be flown very well yawed to one side.  He could have flown several combinations of maneuvers that may have allowed him to cover that guys six.  I can understand if he doesn’t know that combinations  but you can see from his film he is very aware of  developing situation , he looked directly at his follow countrymen and decided not to give the guy a check six. 

I think he is learning bad habits and once learned very hard to unlearn.  I understand that he is knew, that’s why our invitation to fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes still stands.

We fly P38’s in the attack and fighter mode.  We fly as Knights his country of choice .  Squad night is Saturday night, late war arena, Vox 113.
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Offline shiv

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Re: Diary of a Noob
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 03:59:59 PM »
I agree, everyone is responsible for there own six, however I also believe that flying habits once learned both good and bad are very hard to change.  He's learning to be a loan wolf, he's learning to not give check 6's and   I've yet to see a thank you from him for any of the check 6's I've seen him receive. 

 He also states in several posts that he wanted to wing up.  His words, not mine.  I realize that he hasn't learned to control his speed and that's where flying with a wingman or flying with a trainer would help him.  A lot of us that prefer the P38 have learned to control its speed, the L, his preferred ride,  has Speed breaks, lots of flaps and can be flown very well yawed to one side.  He could have flown several combinations of maneuvers that may have allowed him to cover that guys six.  I can understand if he doesn’t know that combinations  but you can see from his film he is very aware of  developing situation , he looked directly at his follow countrymen and decided not to give the guy a check six. 

I think he is learning bad habits and once learned very hard to unlearn.  I understand that he is knew, that’s why our invitation to fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes still stands.

We fly P38’s in the attack and fighter mode.  We fly as Knights his country of choice .  Squad night is Saturday night, late war arena, Vox 113.


Aside from the no check six calls (and maybe he has no mic?) what's bad about being a lone wolf?
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.