Author Topic: Proposal for new strat system.  (Read 4776 times)

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2011, 02:55:26 PM »
A few misconceptions I think I see:

1. Me163s are available to protect HQ. Until "Factories Have Moved to the Rear" the 163's are just not there.

2. Resupply. The only thing anyone resupplies is HQ. It's obvious when it's down. I would wager that if one of those giant bomber missions actually did anything destructive besides bombing dars along the way, say killing the city and ONE strat, that no one would notice but it would actually make a difference.

Kill the city and AAA. No AAA at fields or cities for three hours when it goes down. Think anyone would notice?
Kill the city and Grunt Training. Pork troops and letssee how the hoard takes bases.

It is possible for strats going down to make a difference. No one does it. Don't worry about fuel and the enemy not being able to fly. Take away their ords or troops.

Instant gratification. Not only is it "Too Hard", the results are too subtle. Obviously FMB, you're not crafty enough to use what is available in game now to make a difference.


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Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2011, 03:03:17 PM »
You want to force people to attack bombers but you don't want to attack C-47s. They aren't even armed.

thats the reason why no one bothers gathering people up to hit starts everyday. like i said you take that ability out of the picture and strats would be defended.

And wrongway i am crafty enough to use what i have. theres just no reason to in this war game. its all furballs make a game where you have to fight, and win. i would defenatly be crafty, and unpredictable.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2011, 03:22:59 PM »
What I'm saying is that the strats are too far away and the end result in hitting them isn't worth the time or effort anymore.

When the zone strats were in place they created fights.  The new central strats don't for the reasons mentioned above.

Given your past rhetoric I can't believe that you are happy with the status quo.  I'd have thought that you of all people would want to create more fights.

Agreed, I think the large maps are bad, we just don't have the numbers to support a full 512 map. I don't remember who said it, but one of the map makers thought using the 512 size was ok, but you don't have to fill the whole map with bases. Meaning that they could have a 512 map, but instead of 100 bases use only the center area and have 70 bases. Still bigger than the small maps, but not so big as the large.

I also thought the zones where good too. Making the strats damage "country wide" also hinders the attacks on them. After all if the enemy comes in and wipes out your radar your going to try and do the same to them. OH and I'm up for anything that spreads out thwe hordes make more fun fights!

This may be because im more a stetegic type of player. but furballing dosnt offer much to gameplay at all, its just a bunch of people out for kills. your not doing anything else. just dogfighting, i beleive if you play a game called blitzkrieg for a while you will also see that just going out a dogfighting is pointless. where as when you going out with the intent to cause chaos amongst the opposing sides or to get something acomplished twards winning the war, that it adds more to the gameplay. and i beleive as do others who have posted on this subject that if you take the resupply ability away when it comes to the strats you will see more people doing fighter sweeps, keeping their eyes on the map for large dar bars, and upping to defend the strat targets. along with more people actually going out to hit the strats, and conducting large scale bombing missions more often in a week, then say only going out once a week on TT. and i do beleive a game should be fun but the ability to either tip the balance in your favor when your outnumbered or further weaken an opposing side that you out number should also be utalized. dont get me wrong i have alot of fun but it does kinda get dull when all i see is furball after furball and only small numbers of people on all sides trying to take a base. i hear people say those who horde have no skill. no its called using what you have. if you have an advantage use it to win. if world war 2 was only about skill and not numbers the germans and japanese woulda won. only because they had better pilots better tactics and better equipment. and that is really why we bombed factories and other strategic targets during the war. we really didnt need to do that as much as we did on the japanese. i beleive it was more to show the japanese that they lost then anything else.

WOW! I guess the last 5-6 years that I've been dogfighting has just been a waste of money. I seem to remember having a BLAST during a lot of those fights. Dogfighting is what the gameplay is all about, as well as to many others. All the other things that are available are just things to keep me busy while I look for another fight. Dogfighting is what STOPS people from taking a base, or to TAKE a base. With out dogfighting you have to count on hordes to get it done.

Again, people are PAYING to play a GAME. This is nothing like WAR comparing what "would have happened" in the war has nothing to do with this game. If Hitler wasn't such an Ahole and listened to his advisers we all may be speaking German these days. People are here to have FUN playing a game. Sure some play the strategic side, as well as some playing GVs and other playing at dogfighting. It's all tied together. 

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2011, 04:21:31 PM »
thats the reason why no one bothers gathering people up to hit starts everyday. like i said you take that ability out of the picture and strats would be defended.

And wrongway i am crafty enough to use what i have. theres just no reason to in this war game. its all furballs make a game where you have to fight, and win. i would defenatly be crafty, and unpredictable.

Recap:

It is now possible in game to do what you want to do but it's not worth your time to do what you want to do.


Re: Resupply.

No one resupplies strats. They resupply bases because they see the ord/dar down. They don't notice it not being resupplied because the starts are down. They resupply HQ because they notice dar down.

The "no C-47 resupply" is a moot point in that no one does it anyway.


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Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2011, 05:17:05 PM »
Agreed, I think the large maps are bad, we just don't have the numbers to support a full 512 map. I don't remember who said it, but one of the map makers thought using the 512 size was ok, but you don't have to fill the whole map with bases. Meaning that they could have a 512 map, but instead of 100 bases use only the center area and have 70 bases. Still bigger than the small maps, but not so big as the large.

I also thought the zones where good too. Making the strats damage "country wide" also hinders the attacks on them. After all if the enemy comes in and wipes out your radar your going to try and do the same to them. OH and I'm up for anything that spreads out thwe hordes make more fun fights!

WOW! I guess the last 5-6 years that I've been dogfighting has just been a waste of money. I seem to remember having a BLAST during a lot of those fights. Dogfighting is what the gameplay is all about, as well as to many others. All the other things that are available are just things to keep me busy while I look for another fight. Dogfighting is what STOPS people from taking a base, or to TAKE a base. With out dogfighting you have to count on hordes to get it done.

Again, people are PAYING to play a GAME. This is nothing like WAR comparing what "would have happened" in the war has nothing to do with this game. If Hitler wasn't such an Ahole and listened to his advisers we all may be speaking German these days. People are here to have FUN playing a game. Sure some play the strategic side, as well as some playing GVs and other playing at dogfighting. It's all tied together. 

your not getting it again. furballing adds nothing to gameplay what so ever. thats what i mean i love the dogfight but only play this game for the dogfighting is pointless when you have so much more you can do to help your side win. your not going to win if all you do is furball. and i know dogfighting is what this game is about but its not all its about. when you add the ability to do stetegic missions and tactical missions then it becomes a war game, along with the fact that it has land sea and air battles also make it a war game. sure you can dogfight but be useful with it go out cause chaos to the opposing side. dont just up when you see a furball going. burballing is not doing anything for gameplay and its doing nothing to increase HTCs player growth. i bet more people leave because when they see the majority others just wanting to just go out and kill other people in the game and do nothing to try and win, it drives them away. making this game more of a strategic and team oriented game will attract more players who play for the win to this game. and thats just my belief. and again you guys are driving this subject off topic. and yes people do resupply strats. i do it when their hit by rooks or knights. and i bet others do to. the wish was for HTC to remove the ability to resupply strats after their hit.
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Offline kvuo75

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2011, 05:24:00 PM »
your not going to win if all you do is furball.

not if you don't win the dogfight.
kvuo75

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Offline greens

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2011, 05:40:05 PM »
I lose all the time to my wife n kids. I a loser.
oh btw bring the old strats back  :aok
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2011, 06:04:59 PM »
your not getting it again. furballing adds nothing to gameplay what so ever. thats what i mean i love the dogfight but only play this game for the dogfighting is pointless when you have so much more you can do to help your side win. your not going to win if all you do is furball. and i know dogfighting is what this game is about but its not all its about. when you add the ability to do stetegic missions and tactical missions then it becomes a war game, along with the fact that it has land sea and air battles also make it a war game. sure you can dogfight but be useful with it go out cause chaos to the opposing side. dont just up when you see a furball going. burballing is not doing anything for gameplay and its doing nothing to increase HTCs player growth. i bet more people leave because when they see the majority others just wanting to just go out and kill other people in the game and do nothing to try and win, it drives them away. making this game more of a strategic and team oriented game will attract more players who play for the win to this game. and thats just my belief. and again you guys are driving this subject off topic. and yes people do resupply strats. i do it when their hit by rooks or knights. and i bet others do to. the wish was for HTC to remove the ability to resupply strats after their hit.


I get it, but I don't think you do. I've been playing this game for 10 years. I have done things in this game that you haven't thought of yet. The game was built on dogfighting, that's how it started. I win EVERY TIME I survive a fight and the other guys back in the tower or running away. I have thousands of perks, many earned, and many from "wining da warz!" I was even a Bishop for years leading and participating in all kinds of missions.

This GAME is designed around "playing" and "having fun" THAT is what people are paying for. I've never seen anything about "world domination". Yes you can win the war, and this is to attract those types of players. How ever, if it was ONLY those types of players the game would close up pretty quickly. People get bored with the "capture" part of the game, yes even you will. It may take months, or it may take years, but it will most likely happen. What will you do then? Most look for something harder to do, master a fighter. Try to learn to win every fight they go into. Some play the "points" game and go for top score. The game leaves many avenues open to attract as many player types as possible. 

By trying to make it so you can "force" players not to fly fighter your taking away part of the game. While in a war this might be a good thing, in a game where HTC it trying to earn money off of subscriptions, chasing away a part of the player base isn't a good thing.

Offline EagleDNY

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2011, 07:00:54 PM »

I get it, but I don't think you do. I've been playing this game for 10 years. I have done things in this game that you haven't thought of yet. The game was built on dogfighting, that's how it started. I win EVERY TIME I survive a fight and the other guys back in the tower or running away. I have thousands of perks, many earned, and many from "wining da warz!" I was even a Bishop for years leading and participating in all kinds of missions.

This GAME is designed around "playing" and "having fun" THAT is what people are paying for. I've never seen anything about "world domination". Yes you can win the war, and this is to attract those types of players. How ever, if it was ONLY those types of players the game would close up pretty quickly. People get bored with the "capture" part of the game, yes even you will. It may take months, or it may take years, but it will most likely happen. What will you do then? Most look for something harder to do, master a fighter. Try to learn to win every fight they go into. Some play the "points" game and go for top score. The game leaves many avenues open to attract as many player types as possible. 

By trying to make it so you can "force" players not to fly fighter your taking away part of the game. While in a war this might be a good thing, in a game where HTC it trying to earn money off of subscriptions, chasing away a part of the player base isn't a good thing.

You are making the best arguments for revising the strat system yourself.  HTC is trying to earn money from subscriptions, and there is a good portion of the player base that would like to see some changes to the strat system. As it is now, the "furballers' have no end of options - even IF the proposed strat changes are made.  If the strats get porked in one arena, you can go to the other, or you can go to your dedicated furball arena anytime.  Since all you are looking for is a furball to take a fighter into, it shouldn't matter to you where it is. 
The guys that want to do big bombing missions really have few options other than obliterating a field someplace.  THAT is what is getting boring.   Hitting strats on the current system with resupply is just worthless.  The game "leaves many avenues open", unless you want to do something other than endlessly furball.   I submit that the mere existence of this thread, and the many others like it calling for a strat system shows that there is a portion of the player base getting bored and maybe being chased away already. 
If you want more proof that there is a large portion of the player base that likes working together in a large cooperative mission environment, you don't have to look any further than FSO.  You are regularly catching 400 or so players in there, and they don't seem to be bored out of their minds running an hour-long strike mission, or defending a CV or Base against a huge bombing raid.  A worthwhile strat system would go a long way towards bringing this kind of cooperative environment into the MA. 

$.02

Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2011, 07:19:38 PM »

 People get bored with the "capture" part of the game, yes even you will.

thats is where you are wrong. i been playing stategy games and getting extremly good at it for many years and i will never stop even if i do get bored with it. it will never be the same two times over. furballing is the same everytime. nothing but dogfights in the middle of nowhere between 2 fields. thats offers nothing to a player base that is much much bigger then the majority of AH player base i,e furballers. people want to play a game where yeah it is a challange to win the wars in the game, but it does nothing if the strats that they worked and fought their way into is back up in 30 mins.

not if you don't win the dogfight.

and what does it do to win the war? that player is just gonna come back up. shooting someone down dosnt do anything it just says you shot someone down. sure you get perks for it, but your not going to win the war by just shooting a player down in a furball. shooting them down when they try to take down strats and try to take a base thats doing something for the game play its creating challenge and fights. the true challenge is to win the war and have someone try and stop you. you say we attack undefended bases well there undefended because everyone off furballing. me personally i would love a challenge to stop me and my squad from winning the war. not watch people complain to HTC that people are hording and you should make it harder to take a base or increase radar range. you will find more then enough dogfights if we had stuff like unresupplyable strats and people making the effort to win the war or those who would actually go on fighter sweeps in areas with large dar bars. but no the simple thing for everyone to do is go out and furball. what does it do for gameplay. NOTHING. nobodies trying to win the war nobodies organizing to hit strat targets or take a base. i understand it may be boring to you probrably because you been doing dogfights more then actually trying to win and organize but thats the challenge right there is getting the organization needed to win. that more challenging then say starting a furball.

to be honest i dont care if the damage i cause to your side makes you wanna stay in the tower. if you dont want to lose the fuel or ammo, then watch the map for large dar bars and stop the attack before it happens. its very easy to do. its not my problem if you have no fuel. my goal is to win and if i dont want to be fair to you or play by your rules to win then i dont have to. but my suggestion for the strats would bring more of a player base of those who want to win into the game. most of your two weekers, are probraly those who want to play a game to win. to play a game to work as a team and organize, but if what they take down is back up in 30 mins then whats the point for them to play. sure theres dogfighting, but as i said before the majority of gamers wanna play to win not play to get massive amounts of kills and do nothign to win.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 07:53:25 PM by fullmetalbullet »
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Offline FLS

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2011, 08:10:08 PM »

to be honest i dont care if the damage i cause to your side makes you wanna stay in the tower. if you dont want to lose the fuel or ammo, then watch the map for large dar bars and stop the attack before it happens. its very easy to do. its not my problem if you have no fuel. my goal is to win and if i dont want to be fair to you or play by your rules to win then i dont have to.

You want to grief the fighters by bombing strats. You think the fighters should be forced to fly in circles at targets that may or may not be hit because otherwise they'll be stuck with 25% fuel. In either case they won't be able to dogfight.

You want a game that doesn't even need a flight model.  :lol

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2011, 08:30:11 PM »
You are making the best arguments for revising the strat system yourself.  HTC is trying to earn money from subscriptions, and there is a good portion of the player base that would like to see some changes to the strat system. As it is now, the "furballers' have no end of options - even IF the proposed strat changes are made.  If the strats get porked in one arena, you can go to the other, or you can go to your dedicated furball arena anytime.  Since all you are looking for is a furball to take a fighter into, it shouldn't matter to you where it is. 
The guys that want to do big bombing missions really have few options other than obliterating a field someplace.  THAT is what is getting boring.   Hitting strats on the current system with resupply is just worthless.  The game "leaves many avenues open", unless you want to do something other than endlessly furball.   I submit that the mere existence of this thread, and the many others like it calling for a strat system shows that there is a portion of the player base getting bored and maybe being chased away already. 
If you want more proof that there is a large portion of the player base that likes working together in a large cooperative mission environment, you don't have to look any further than FSO.  You are regularly catching 400 or so players in there, and they don't seem to be bored out of their minds running an hour-long strike mission, or defending a CV or Base against a huge bombing raid.  A worthwhile strat system would go a long way towards bringing this kind of cooperative environment into the MA. 

$.02

Hitting strats is not worthless, it is time consuming and boring, but it works. And who says all these player want to do is furball? I for one love a good mission, horde no, mission YES!  Yes FSO is well populated, but I don't know that it would be so if that was ALL you had. People don't run mission to strat because it's too much trouble.

thats is where you are wrong. i been playing stategy games and getting extremly good at it for many years and i will never stop even if i do get bored with it. it will never be the same two times over. furballing is the same everytime. nothing but dogfights in the middle of nowhere between 2 fields. thats offers nothing to a player base that is much much bigger then the majority of AH player base i,e furballers. people want to play a game where yeah it is a challange to win the wars in the game, but it does nothing if the strats that they worked and fought their way into is back up in 30 mins.

We'll see, after you have captured thousands of bases, and won the war hundreds of times we'll see how much it still excites you.

Quote
and what does it do to win the war? that player is just gonna come back up. shooting someone down dosnt do anything it just says you shot someone down. sure you get perks for it, but your not going to win the war by just shooting a player down in a furball. shooting them down when they try to take down strats and try to take a base thats doing something for the game play its creating challenge and fights. the true challenge is to win the war and have someone try and stop you. you say we attack undefended bases well there undefended because everyone off furballing. me personally i would love a challenge to stop me and my squad from winning the war. not watch people complain to HTC that people are hording and you should make it harder to take a base or increase radar range. you will find more then enough dogfights if we had stuff like unresupplyable strats and people making the effort to win the war or those who would actually go on fighter sweeps in areas with large dar bars. but no the simple thing for everyone to do is go out and furball. what does it do for gameplay. NOTHING. nobodies trying to win the war nobodies organizing to hit strat targets or take a base. i understand it may be boring to you probrably because you been doing dogfights more then actually trying to win and organize but thats the challenge right there is getting the organization needed to win. that more challenging then say starting a furball.

to be honest i dont care if the damage i cause to your side makes you wanna stay in the tower. if you dont want to lose the fuel or ammo, then watch the map for large dar bars and stop the attack before it happens. its very easy to do. its not my problem if you have no fuel. my goal is to win and if i dont want to be fair to you or play by your rules to win then i dont have to. but my suggestion for the strats would bring more of a player base of those who want to win into the game. most of your two weekers, are probraly those who want to play a game to win. to play a game to work as a team and organize, but if what they take down is back up in 30 mins then whats the point for them to play. sure theres dogfighting, but as i said before the majority of gamers wanna play to win not play to get massive amounts of kills and do nothign to win.

People don't defend against your squad because in most cases your squad becomes a horde and jst rolls over bases. Even trying to furball in that mess isn't fighting, it trying to survive and frankly get to frustrating after a while. So people move on to find other places to defend, or attack. Yes MANY are defending other places and attacking other places. To you it just looks like a furball, but in more case than not its a fight over land. Dogfighting is a skill and thrill you haven't gotten yet. You will, fighting takes a lot longer to get even "ok" at

How do you know that most of the 2 weekers are those types of players that are looking to win the war, and NOT those that like fights? Are you in charge of some entrance poll? Everyone finds a "way to play" in this game because there are many ways to play. Your proposing to make the removal of some of that game play player controlled. We have trouble letting players control CV's !

This game has never been about limiting play, it's been about add more and more avenues FOR play.

Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2011, 09:05:46 PM »
Hitting strats is not worthless, it is time consuming and boring, but it works. And who says all these player want to do is furball? I for one love a good mission, horde no, mission YES!  Yes FSO is well populated, but I don't know that it would be so if that was ALL you had. People don't run mission to strat because it's too much trouble.

We'll see, after you have captured thousands of bases, and won the war hundreds of times we'll see how much it still excites you.

People don't defend against your squad because in most cases your squad becomes a horde and jst rolls over bases. Even trying to furball in that mess isn't fighting, it trying to survive and frankly get to frustrating after a while. So people move on to find other places to defend, or attack. Yes MANY are defending other places and attacking other places. To you it just looks like a furball, but in more case than not its a fight over land. Dogfighting is a skill and thrill you haven't gotten yet. You will, fighting takes a lot longer to get even "ok" at

How do you know that most of the 2 weekers are those types of players that are looking to win the war, and NOT those that like fights? Are you in charge of some entrance poll? Everyone finds a "way to play" in this game because there are many ways to play. Your proposing to make the removal of some of that game play player controlled. We have trouble letting players control CV's !

This game has never been about limiting play, it's been about add more and more avenues FOR play.

but ya see furballing is 9 times outa ten all you see and yes winning the war will ston excite me even if it does seem to get boring and trust me it does but i will not get 100% bored of it. its always different every time you do it. and if you did like a good mission wuld you like it if your target you hit is brought back up before you leave the target area? no i think not. and no playing the strategic game in AH is so much better the mostly seeing furballs. and you are wrong people dont defend because their busy furballing, its not because that cant stop it. people say its easy to shoot us down but you dont wanna take the time to do it. and its not my problem if the furballers dont like the fact that we use numbers to take a base. and i believe HTC could grow more with the strategic end of AH, then the furballing end of it. all i want HTC to do is remove the ability to resupply the strats so that way their not back up before we leave enemy territory. thats all. why is it such a bad thing if you dont wanna try and up to stop the massive bombing raid thats going to smash your factories? its not like we are going to go around and pork fuel at a base so you cant up? i probrably would only because i get a big kick outa watching people complain about them not being able to do what they want.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2011, 09:15:27 PM »
...and all you have to do is leave a few ponies there to cap the starts AFTER you take them down. Why don't you try a mission like that?

Take down the City first so it can't resupply the factories, then take down the factory you want, oh say ACK. leave a few ponies to cover the resupply goons and have the rest of your horde....err squad take out ack at a bunch of bases. Send a few guys to re-leave the ponies who now may have a number of kills to land, and then start hitting bases again. ACK will stay down much longer at all those bases. Or you could hit ammo to stop a retaliation.

With just a few ponies keeping cap your strat will stay down for hours.

Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Proposal for new strat system.
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2011, 09:26:58 PM »
...and all you have to do is leave a few ponies there to cap the starts AFTER you take them down. Why don't you try a mission like that?

Take down the City first so it can't resupply the factories, then take down the factory you want, oh say ACK. leave a few ponies to cover the resupply goons and have the rest of your horde....err squad take out ack at a bunch of bases. Send a few guys to re-leave the ponies who now may have a number of kills to land, and then start hitting bases again. ACK will stay down much longer at all those bases. Or you could hit ammo to stop a retaliation.

With just a few ponies keeping cap your strat will stay down for hours.

do you relize that those escorts may not have the fuel to stay and get back home? you may think 80 mins is alot but think of the time it take to get up to alt escort your bombers in , may have to burn fuel dealing with those that up and then now they have to stay and provide a cap! with what fuel would they have to do that. keep in mind even if the escort up as close as possible to get the maximum range out of their planes they still might not have the fuel to get back.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 09:31:11 PM by fullmetalbullet »
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