Proposal for new strat system.

[EagleDNY]

Strat will NEVER be designed in a method in which fullmetalbullet could go out and do major impact to a country. Possibly him and 10 of his friends could have a significant impact.

-- thats what I am talking about - some kind of SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.  I'm not advocating changes that allow 1 box of buffs to pork an entire country, but if an EPIC 30 box B-29 mission spends an hour blowing up someones HQ, the bloody HQ should stay down for more than the 10 minutes it currently takes for a half-dozen goons to fly from the nearest base.  IMHO strats should not be able to be resupplied by players at the tactical level.  It really isn't necessary since you can globally set the resupply frequency to set the time that you want 100% destroyed strats to stay down.

It is folly to think people will spend time in the air guarding one area. People will do what is fun, flying a defensive patrol in an arena style play is not would most people would consider fun on a regular basis.

-- people don't have to spend time in the air 'guarding' an area.  No resupply of strats means nobody is going to have to sit there loitering for goons or m3s.  The raid itself is picked up as a huge dar bar or a load of inbound dots on dar LONG before it gets to target.  Loitering over an area for a half-hour is boring, but launching an INTERCEPT that consists of climbing to altitude and engaging incoming bombers and escorts for a half hour is actually kind of fun.

The only change I have been considering , and had starting to look at previously, was lowering the effects of supply drops. I believe it should take an equal or greater amount of time flying supplies as was spent attacking the target. So at some point I may lower the effect of supplies.

HiTech

Again, let me suggest removing the supplying of strats altogether.  Caldera makes a good point as well - you don't want to gum up the base resupply process either.  His point that a single suicide run fighter can easily pork the strats at a base is valid.  I would suggest that it really should take a 500 or 1000lb bomb to do anything to a concrete ammo bunker.  Upping the hardness of base strats in conjunction with dropping the supply of factories, cities, and HQ would seem like a good way to proceed IMHO.

[fullmetalbullet]

-- thats what I am talking about - some kind of SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.  I'm not advocating changes that allow 1 box of buffs to pork an entire country, but if an EPIC 30 box B-29 mission spends an hour blowing up someones HQ, the bloody HQ should stay down for more than the 10 minutes it currently takes for a half-dozen goons to fly from the nearest base.  IMHO strats should not be able to be resupplied by players at the tactical level.  It really isn't necessary since you can globally set the resupply frequency to set the time that you want 100% destroyed strats to stay down.
 -- people don't have to spend time in the air 'guarding' an area.  No resupply of strats means nobody is going to have to sit there loitering for goons or m3s.  The raid itself is picked up as a huge dar bar or a load of inbound dots on dar LONG before it gets to target.  Loitering over an area for a half-hour is boring, but launching an INTERCEPT that consists of climbing to altitude and engaging incoming bombers and escorts for a half hour is actually kind of fun.
Again, let me suggest removing the supplying of strats altogether.  Caldera makes a good point as well - you don't want to gum up the base resupply process either.  His point that a single suicide run fighter can easily pork the strats at a base is valid.  I would suggest that it really should take a 500 or 1000lb bomb to do anything to a concrete ammo bunker.  Upping the hardness of base strats in conjunction with dropping the supply of factories, cities, and HQ would seem like a good way to proceed IMHO.

thats even better because it supports the idea that i had, plus i never said i would go out and pork ords after we land. and in no way have i said it would just be me. you guys totally missed what i said when i said 20 to 30 bombers in a mission to drop strats. and yes idk why you would loiter for hours just to intercept a large group of bombers inb to the target. a huge red bar is always the first sign that something big is coming.

[kvuo75]

thats even better because it supports the idea that i had, plus i never said i would go out and pork ords after we land. and in no way have i said it would just be me. you guys totally missed what i said when i said 20 to 30 bombers in a mission to drop strats.

naah, you just want your style of play to be more effective with less effort..   remember earlier in this thread you wanted to be able to limit a country's fuel to 25% by getting the refinery down <5%, which could be done with a couple sets of b17's in 2 passes easily.

tell me how you'll like it if HTC takes away the resupply ability from the strats, but increases their hardness so it takes 1000lbs of bombs per object instead of 250lbs. Oh yeah, you're gonna take 20-30 bombers, so it shouldn't be a problem.

 
fullmetalbullet, I've been reading all these recent threads you are participating in, you occur to me to be someone who would want to add a nuke option to the B29 in the game.  So one guy could flatten a base / town / HQ / factory in one drop? Am I correct?

[fullmetalbullet]

naah, you just want your style of play to be more effective with less effort..   remember earlier in this thread you wanted to be able to limit a country's fuel to 25% by getting the refinery down <5%, which could be done with a couple sets of b17's in 2 passes easily.

tell me how you'll like it if HTC takes away the resupply ability from the strats, but increases their hardness so it takes 1000lbs of bombs per object instead of 250lbs. Oh yeah, you're gonna take 20-30 bombers, so it shouldn't be a problem.

 
fullmetalbullet, I've been reading all these recent threads you are participating in, you occur to me to be someone who would want to add a nuke option to the B29 in the game.  So one guy could flatten a base / town / HQ / factory in one drop? Am I correct?

actually you are wrong my friend o love a challenge and like geting people together and no i dint want to take down strats in one pass, i would love to see strats be more of a handicap to a side when you bring them down. that is what they should be, i done give a damn if it screws with your furball hell if i could i would get people to go around the map and take hangars just to break up furballs then maybe you will keep you eyes on the map looking for hordes that you can stop. but oh wait thats to much its not fair to you if i cant go out and furball 24/7. base takers who use numbers are skilless so i dont wanna do that because i dont have time to. i wanna spend my time working on my score by getting as many kills as i can. well furballer deal with it ok, im not here to play the way you want to im here to play the way i want to. and if i wanna go around and screw up your furball time then i can do that. as you say its my 14.99 a month. and all i suggested her is to remove the ability to ressupply strats and you guys take it as i want a nuke or i wanna go in like rambo and destroy everything in one swift move. no i wanted to see big bomber missions to the strats more offten then once a week.

[ink]

actually you are wrong my friend o love a challenge and like geting people together and no i dint want to take down strats in one pass, i would love to see strats be more of a handicap to a side when you bring them down. that is what they should be, i done give a damn if it screws with your furball hell if i could i would get people to go around the map and take hangars just to break up furballs then maybe you will keep you eyes on the map looking for hordes that you can stop. but oh wait thats to much its not fair to you if i cant go out and furball 24/7. base takers who use numbers are skilless so i dont wanna do that because i dont have time to. i wanna spend my time working on my score by getting as many kills as i can. well furballer deal with it ok, im not here to play the way you want to im here to play the way i want to. and if i wanna go around and screw up your furball time then i can do that. as you say its my 14.99 a month. and all i suggested her is to remove the ability to ressupply strats and you guys take it as i want a nuke or i wanna go in like rambo and destroy everything in one swift move. no i wanted to see big bomber missions to the strats more offten then once a week.

 

oh man you crack me up

[SlapShot]

-- thats what I am talking about - some kind of SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.  I'm not advocating changes that allow 1 box of buffs to pork an entire country, but if an EPIC 30 box B-29 mission spends an hour blowing up someones HQ, the bloody HQ should stay down for more than the 10 minutes it currently takes for a half-dozen goons to fly from the nearest base.  IMHO strats should not be able to be resupplied by players at the tactical level.  It really isn't necessary since you can globally set the resupply frequency to set the time that you want 100% destroyed strats to stay down.

Did you not read this whole thread ? If you want to make a significant impact on HQ ... YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE CITY DOWN FIRST !!!

HT is not going to let you or anyone make a significant impact on any of the strats with a single action and he isn't going to let that action not be balanced with a counter-acting action. There is a "designed" linkage to strats ... from cities, to strat, to fields ... in that order.

He said that he is going to look at the re-supply process and possibly tweak to make the effort to resupply any strat equal to the effort that was expended to bring the strat down.

Sounds fair to me. Not allowing me to counter-act an action, with effort, is not fair.

[SlapShot]

i done give a damn if it screws with your furball hell if i could i would get people to go around the map and take hangars just to break up furballs then maybe you will keep you eyes on the map looking for hordes that you can stop.

This one sentence speaks volumes. As I said before, your "agenda" is a guise for wanting to be able to grief those who don't want to participate in your war effort.

This one sentence is the reason why HT will never take anything you say seriously. If you had your way, you would drive his game into the ground and him out of business.

You are really nothing more than a "griefer" (or a troll), and I am done debating anything with you. Your intentions are yours alone and really aren't considering anyone else ... even the team and squad you fly for.

[fullmetalbullet]

Sounds fair to me. Not allowing me to counter-act an action, with effort, is not fair.

i know that. and i understand its suppose to be fair. and you can counter it by coming up and shooting the bombers down. how hard is that to do. i go up to bombers that come to the strat all the time sometimes i shoot them down sometime i only get one. it sounds to me that you dont wanna take the time to go up to 25,000 feet to shoot down a set of bombers or gather people together to go up and try to shoot down a massive bomber raid.

[RTHolmes]

FMB have you actually done a strat raid with 20 sets of buffs and dropped them to <5%? and seen what happens?

(btw thats 42 separate supply runs to get em back up to 100% btw, more if you dont do the city first, then the factories ...)


In my experience people will resupply HQ, but it takes 10mins til everyone notices, another 10mins of explaining on country how it works, and another 10 to resupply if you can get 6 people willing to do it. its rare that an HQ pops again in 10mins. 30mins is more usual. I cant remember seeing anyone resupplying the city strats, although maybe thats a knit thing


The downtime and resupply was balanced perfectly for the old zone system because of the shorter flight time - its pretty much the only bombing I used to do, with repeat sorties to keep the city down - and it had very noticeable effects when you were trying to take the zone base. people complain about vulching now but its a picnic compared to defending a zone base with no ack for 2h ...



edit: btw yes, that was a hint. bring back the zones!

[fullmetalbullet]

FMB have you actually done a strat raid with 20 sets of buffs and dropped them to <5%? and seen what happens?

(btw thats 42 separate supply runs to get em back up to 100% btw, more if you dont do the city first, then the factories ...)


In my experience people will resupply HQ, but it takes 10mins til everyone notices, another 10mins of explaining on country how it works, and another 10 to resupply if you can get 6 people willing to do it. its rare that an HQ pops again in 10mins. 30mins is more usual. I cant remember seeing anyone resupplying the city strats, although maybe thats a knit thing


The downtime and resupply was balanced perfectly for the old zone system because of the shorter flight time - its pretty much the only bombing I used to do, with repeat sorties to keep the city down - and it had very noticeable effects when you were trying to take the zone base. people complain about vulching now but its a picnic compared to defending a zone base with no ack for 2h ...

yes a few times. but theres not alot of them and i would love to see that. more over that fine edge HT was talking about. that only effects offensive capabilities. another thing is i have taken part in resupplying of strats. and seen why nobody runs massive runs to the strats. their back up in 45 mins even when you hit the city. its still all back up in 45 mins. your not even out of enemy airspace by that time. and strats should have more of effect to that side if they lose them. i dont see why thats a bad thing. you dont need to fly around in circles over the strats waiting for some massive raid when theres a huge dar bar thats heading towords the starts. thats obviously a bid red flag thats somethings coming. i done a HQ raid once after the B-29 came out we did this in jugs and trust me they had a huge number of 163s up at 25 to 30k so people do see these raids. sure not all of our bombs hit the target but that right there shows that people to keep an eye on whats happening so you dont need to run fighter sweeps every hour just to stop these raids. and again HT there has to be more that strats effect, i dont really care how it is done. but it needs to do more effect and i bet it can do more effect without ruining everyones fight. it need to cause more damage to that side that getting bombed then to its offensive capabilities. if not limit them then what woukd people say as better then that? what should it do more then take away offensive capabilities?

[kvuo75]

edit: btw yes, that was a hint. bring back the zones!

yes! zones! with the factories and cities scattered about. 

[RTHolmes]

their back up in 45 mins even when you hit the city.

... and this is why I asked if you'd done it because, unless theres a recent bug I havent heard about, it works like it says on the tin.

me and a coupla squaddies took 2 T34s and an M3 to some strats a month ago. we spent about 2h there (and had to reverse up a massive hill to get there ) we hit 4 or 5 of the strats and then the city. got them all down to <5%. about 20% of the first strat we shelled popped up by the time we got to the 2nd (they were down when we rolled into town.) after 2h when we'd flattened the city, the 1st strat was still at 75%.


edit: 1st gear ratio too long to climb the hill? not a problem (I'd have been sat at the bottom of the hill without WildDog's cunning plan)


(bottom line of country chat is quite ... um ... ironic)

[Dead Man Flying]

it sounds to me that you dont wanna take the time to go up to 25,000 feet to shoot down a set of bombers or gather people together to go up and try to shoot down a massive bomber raid.

That's exactly right.  Pretty much nobody wants to do that, nobody has to do that, and nobody does that.  Most players save that kind of flying for scenarios.  The rest of them don't have the 70+ hours per month to spend playing your kind of game.

[moot]

Holmes there's a bug at least in the MW arena where the strats pop back up fast.  A couple of us had a CV parked on the rear shoreline of ndisles HQ island and kept hitting everything for maybe 12h straight.  The factories would pop up quick despite city status.

[SlapShot]

kept hitting everything for maybe 12h straight.

Say it ain't so ...

Shifts ?