Author Topic: Russian Spits  (Read 1635 times)

Offline Pigslilspaz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3378
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 10:10:16 PM »
P-39q and brewster have soviet and Finnish skins, respectively, but were both American designs

The Brewster we have is the finnish version. If we had the US one it would be a complete dog like everyone says it would be. Even the Vehicles list says that the Brewster we have is FINNISH

Quote from: Superfly
The rules are simple: Don't be a dick.
Quote from: hitech
It was skuzzy's <----- fault.
Quote from: Pyro
We just witnessed a miracle and I want you to @#$%^& acknowledge it!

Offline EskimoJoe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4831
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2011, 10:19:25 PM »
Top Spitfire is a recce bird and unarmed.  The other profiles are speculative based on less then perfect photos. 

This is what I was waiting for.
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline MachFly

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6296
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2011, 11:09:26 PM »
This is what I was waiting for.

So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 11:11:34 PM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline EskimoJoe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4831
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2011, 11:34:20 PM »
So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?

That's what Guppy is saying, I didn't realize the first was a recce bird. Still, the second part
may still apply to the first profile.

Top Spitfire is a recce bird and unarmed.  The other profiles are speculative based on less then perfect photos.  

Don't think I could make it any more red than that...
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 11:36:27 PM by EskimoJoe »
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline MachFly

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6296
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2011, 12:02:57 AM »
That's what Guppy is saying, I didn't realize the first was a recce bird. Still, the second part
may still apply to the first profile.

Don't think I could make it any more red than that...

Well...first you quotes his whole post so I did not know exactly what you were talking about.

So what exactly did you mean why this:

Also, somebody will be along shortly to tell you why these profiles
wouldn't be allowed.

I understand Rob did not post the image of the whole Spitfire, just the side, but that does not mean it can not be used to find out what the whole skin looks like.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 12:32:49 AM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2011, 12:06:47 AM »
So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?

No idea on Soviet Spit Vb or IX skins.  Considering the number of RAF, RAAF, USAAF etc skins that are out there for combat Spits, I'd think a Soviet skinned bird would be down the list, but that's not my call.  

As for a recce Spit.  It would be similar to letting a 38 skinner do a haze paint recce 38. It would look nice but no guns.  Not a fighter.  We don't have recce birds with no guns.   The Spitfires that have been done that are based on recce birds are fighter recce, meaning they have the guns and the camera was an afterthought :)  The Pink Spit IX and I are good examples of that.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2011, 12:15:19 AM »
This is the photo that the profile of Spit Vb EP510  "538" is made from.  If that's an arrow on the fuselage, I sure don't see it.  Folks have been speculating on this one forever.  I don't buy it.

Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline EskimoJoe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4831
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2011, 09:03:59 AM »
Well...first you quotes his whole post so I did not know exactly what you were talking about.

So what exactly did you mean why this:

I understand Rob did not post the image of the whole Spitfire, just the side, but that does not mean it can not be used to find out what the whole skin looks like.

They didn't look accurate to me. I'm no skinner or historian, but they just didn't
look quite right. They may be allowed, but as Guppy said, they'd probably
be pretty far down the list.
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline 1Nicolas

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 176
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 09:22:43 AM »
I think it's a good idea.

(My World Of Tank signature)
There are no great men, just great challenges which ordinary men, out of necessity, are forced by circumstances to meet.

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2011, 11:16:57 AM »
No idea on Soviet Spit Vb or IX skins.  Considering the number of RAF, RAAF, USAAF etc skins that are out there for combat Spits, I'd think a Soviet skinned bird would be down the list, but that's not my call.  

As for a recce Spit.  It would be similar to letting a 38 skinner do a haze paint recce 38. It would look nice but no guns.  Not a fighter.  We don't have recce birds with no guns.   The Spitfires that have been done that are based on recce birds are fighter recce, meaning they have the guns and the camera was an afterthought :)  The Pink Spit IX and I are good examples of that.

Isn't the pink Spit9 skin we have a "recce" skin ?
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline mbailey

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5677
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2011, 11:38:14 AM »
The Soviets really didn't like them and the Soviet Spitfires were quickly withdrawn from the frontlines to rearguard operations under the PVO.  
ack-ack

Any info on this, you've really peaked my curiosity now. ( I mean that sincerely )
Mbailey
80th FS "Headhunters"

Ichi Go Ichi E
Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.

When the game is over, the Kings and Pawns all go into the same box.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2011, 02:17:37 PM »
Isn't the pink Spit9 skin we have a "recce" skin ?

Fighter Recon.  It's a Spit IX fully armed with a camera added.  We have a Spitfire I that's also pink and armed too that was also a recce bird.

The recce blue painted Spits were unarmed PRIV, PRIX, PRXI, PR19

There were FRIXs and FRXIVs.  Kinda the same as the F6A, F6C and F6D/K  Mustangs.  Kept their guns but had cameras too.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2011, 11:59:10 AM »
Fighter Recon.  It's a Spit IX fully armed with a camera added.  We have a Spitfire I that's also pink and armed too that was also a recce bird.

The recce blue painted Spits were unarmed PRIV, PRIX, PRXI, PR19

There were FRIXs and FRXIVs.  Kinda the same as the F6A, F6C and F6D/K  Mustangs.  Kept their guns but had cameras too.
:rofl ... so is that a yes or a no ?

Isn't recce slang/abbrev for Reconnaissance ?
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2011, 12:48:30 PM »
This is the photo that the profile of Spit Vb EP510  "538" is made from.  If that's an arrow on the fuselage, I sure don't see it.  Folks have been speculating on this one forever.  I don't buy it.

Guppy, based on many other arrows the Soviets loved to paint on any number of planes, it definitely follows the pattern and shape.

The only question is: What's with the definition there? Is it fading away? Is it overpainted but showing through? And what's that little "leg" up on the top cowling doing there?

So it definitely looks like the typical arrow design Soviets put on any plane they wanted. That's not the question. The question is why it looks like it does, why it's so hard to get a clear outline on it, etc.

And just as a general quick-search to show how common and every day these arrows were on VVS craft:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/41600d1299771767t-some-prifiles-my-archive-gurgidze-yak-9-polozk-44-risunok-tehnik-v.safronov-65-giap.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7905/yak90d.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9347/yak1y.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/boxart/zvezda/zvezda_il-2-1942.jpg
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/Immagine-043.jpg

And even here in AH:
http://www.netaces.org/skins/la7/default.jpg
http://www.netaces.org/skins/la5fn/skin2.jpg

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: Russian Spits
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2011, 12:51:09 PM »
:rofl ... so is that a yes or a no ?

Isn't recce slang/abbrev for Reconnaissance ?

There were different ways of doing it. There were some dedicated variants of planes that had all guns removed to save weight and carried only cameras.

Such UNARMED recon planes are not allowed for in-game skins.

Planes that retained guns but may have also had cameras fitted were fighter recon, and these skins will be allowed (and have been allowed already).

IMO the question would be did any particular VVS Spitfire skin see combat? If so it's game. If not it's wasting limited skin slots on a skin that never saw combat. One of the criteria for skins was to have seen combat, last I recall (hence no unarmed recon, no training units, no state-side units, etc)